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Old 04-11-2012, 07:47 PM   #91
Alpha.s9

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Default Re: Insurgency Breakdown and Alteration

Lots of suggestions here... I like it.

With the recent changes DB has testing on a couple of servers, I wanted to see how it affects this conversation. Assuming PR moves forward with these changes, what OTHER changes do you think would add to the fun?

One cache at a time

One suggestion that I've seen a lot of... one cache at a time. I like this change, I think it's for the best. I also think there are some current issues that will need to be addressed to make it work. To support why I like this, you can read a few comments above that stress one common factor: More caches == less defense

Unknowns provide a variety of problems in current gameplay, from people spawning on them and giving them away to blufor running around hitting unknowns instead of assaulting the known cache. Removing them resolves this issue.

Some bad comes along with this. A lot of people complain that there are some caches that are just too tough to crack sometimes. There are several suggestions to address this as well. I think a timed expiration on caches and/or some cache location redesign could address this issue. For the timed expiration I don't agree there should be a blufor penalty because if blufor is assaulting a cache and gets repelled, they have already expended tickets on the assault. I'm worried that penalizing them more than wasted time and tickets may make teams decide to not even try a cache they think will be too hard.

Anyway my hope is that the "one cache at a time" change will consolidate the firefights to a more defined area (creating more intense battles) and make the rounds go a little faster.

Intel

The intel tweaks are interesting changes and I can't comment on them too much until I see them in action but I think this is another area that needs some work. Currently intel points will never go negative. With these changes bringing about the possibility to double the amount of intel needed to reveal a cache, I think we will see more collaborator efforts that are effective.

Martyr 7 collabs while looking for a cache and now you have to kill 145 insurgents (instead of just 75) to get enough intel. This is a huge change that I think most people are overlooking and it may need to be tweaked many times to find the right balance. I like it though, as it seems to add more reason to the intel system. I would love to hear some more suggestions on other things you think could be done with intel points, particularly involving control zones (flags).

Other Stuffs

Not related directly to current changes, but things that might help these changes:

We really need to look at C4 in insurgency. One option I can see would be to move all caches that are located in a building with no cover around the perimeter of said building. This would allow for a "360" security perimeter around the cache building without exposing those defenders to long range, unobstructed fire. Blufor must BREACH the compound in order to get in C4 range of the cache, and it will either be CQB, CAS, or mortars/area attack.

Another option is to remove C4 from insurgency. This might address some other problems with c4 as well, but we would have to be certain to move/remove those "impossible" caches that pretty much require the c4 approach to get to them.

Hrm... that's all I have for now. Let's discuss and see what we can come up with using DBs changes as a baseline.
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Old 04-11-2012, 07:58 PM   #92
badmojo420
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Default Re: Insurgency Breakdown and Alteration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha.s9 View Post
Some bad comes along with this. A lot of people complain that there are some caches that are just too tough to crack sometimes. There are several suggestions to address this as well. I think a timed expiration on caches and/or some cache location redesign could address this issue.
I don't like the timed expiration idea, I can envision the blufor just on the brink of getting the cache and it expires. Or the blufor decide to sit back and collect intel until it expires, hoping the next one will be easier to assault.

One idea I had to combat this, is to give the blufor a ticket bleed after a set amount of time. Let's say if the cache is still alive an hour after it becomes known, the blufor start to bleed tickets. If they can't get the cache, they should lose the round, not be given another chance. If a cache is deemed impossible to get, it should be reported in the proper thread.
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Old 04-11-2012, 08:18 PM   #93
Alpha.s9

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Default Re: Insurgency Breakdown and Alteration

Quote:
Originally Posted by badmojo420 View Post
If they can't get the cache, they should lose the round, not be given another chance. If a cache is deemed impossible to get, it should be reported in the proper thread.
Ya I think the "impossible to get" should be fixed at the cache level, ie moving the cache or changing the map around it in order to make it "possible" again. I don't like chasing after a fix for one or two questionable caches by changing the entire game design.

Throughout changes to the system "rules" I'm sure we will find that some caches are no longer in viable locations, but I feel that these are environmental and can be edited to accommodate the new "rules".
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Old 04-12-2012, 11:10 AM   #94
ExeTick
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Default Re: Insurgency Breakdown and Alteration

it should be harder to destroy caches. 3-4 incendiary grenades is not enough. it can easily be destroyed by a 2 man unknown hunting squad.

I would say it should take 7-8 incendiary grenades or 2-3 C4s to destroy a cache. you would be able to react before the cache is going down and it would be harder for bluefor to take it out. (I know some caches are VERY hard to destroy), but thats because infantry squads are not working together every squad attack the cache on there own.

Ive seen 3 squads on NwA working together attacking caches and manage to destroy it. But 1 squad is most certain to die if they attack alone on one of the hard caches.
And those squads usually have apc/tank support.

key to victory is fobs and teamwork.
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Old 04-13-2012, 10:01 AM   #95
arjan

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Default Re: Insurgency Breakdown and Alteration

1st find the cache, then destroy, then a flag spawns and needs to be captured and once captured a X on the map marks the location as cleared?

Ingame name: [TP]A.Behr
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Old 04-13-2012, 09:35 PM   #96
Web_cole
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Default Re: Insurgency Breakdown and Alteration

So I played my first round of One Cache Insurgency on PRTA just now. It was interesting, and honestly I didn't see a huge difference from normal Ins:



I will say it seemed like the team confined itself to one (quite large) quadrant of the map, instead of the willy-nilly, anywhere and everywhere approach you see in normal Ins. So that was nice.

It may have been a lacklustre US team, but the cache you can see in the screenshot stood the entire round. It may also have been kind of a difficult cache to get, under the circumstances.

Which brings me to my first point; I think One Cache Ins doesn't work by itself. Imo there would need to be some kind of major overhaul of the game mode/mechanics/level design. Either the timer and intel changes I suggest in the OP initially, maybe a massive tweaking effort on all the cache spawns to make sure there are no super difficult ones, or Something Else. Either way it would probably end up being a lot of work.

(Although all of that is based on one round, so far, so take it with a pinch of salt.)


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Old 04-13-2012, 09:42 PM   #97
badmojo420
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Default Re: Insurgency Breakdown and Alteration

I've got a solution, mk19 humvees and apache gunships
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Old 04-14-2012, 12:46 PM   #98
Killer2354

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Default Re: Insurgency Breakdown and Alteration

so that's where your hideout was. I thought it would be there. But yeah, 1 cache was interesting, although kind of difficult if it's in a easily defended area like that.
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:42 PM   #99
illidur
Default Re: Insurgency Breakdown and Alteration

i have played a few rounds of the test and it seems like a more balanced mode even now.

i believe that insurgency should still have the patrol and unknown hunting it used to have, with unexpected ambushes. it should still be possible with one cache with good INTEL settings. every round i played so far the enemy found out about the cache 5 minutes after the last one went down. even though i was martyring myself. this ruins the time to set up defense and for them to be ambushed. other changes to make it more balanced should happen after this important gameplay element is intact right? using cunning tactics like fake caches/ambushes and a good setup time are my favorite things to do, just as much as hiding in bush spying on that sapper going to reload his mines at the cache

i propose not really a change to the settings for intel though. i have two methods to make it so the intel is a little more linear, yet still a negative to shoot civis (probably supplement it):

1. when a cache gets blown up reduce IP by XX. this one makes sense to me even if the cache was unknown. because if they can kill the cache as an unknown they dont need intel. probably easy as hell to add too.

2. when a cache becomes known make IP max 0 but still able to go negative. (might not be possible or too hard to make) would make it so you can't shoot civis but still dont get intel right after your last assault.

either of the first two should work, and both should complement the current test settings.

3. changes to civis would be making it less linear and probably harder to find the balance but could be the answer.
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Old 04-19-2012, 01:11 AM   #100
Alpha.s9

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Default Re: Insurgency Breakdown and Alteration

Quote:
Originally Posted by illidur View Post

2. when a cache becomes known make IP max 0 but still able to go negative. (might not be possible or too hard to make) would make it so you can't shoot civis but still dont get intel right after your last assault.
If i recall correctly, with the current test settings once a cache goes known the intel points reset to zero. If the max points were set to zero, then you would not get intel for fighting over a known, and once you kill it you would have to start all over for intel points to get the next cache. This might be something worth considering if blufor is able to get all the caches every time.

Current settings allow you to be gaining intel for the next cache while fighting over the known, but without actually having an unknown in play (to avoid multiple problems encountered with unknowns). If you gain enough intel during the fight over the known, as soon as it is destroyed you will go on timer for the next known. Maybe the timer between getting the intel and the cache showing up for blufor should be lowered or removed to compliment this change.

I suspect this is the reason the next cache is always 5 minutes after the first, you are getting enough intel but you still have to wait for the cache to go blue.
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