Infantry squad, fireteams that actually work (wow?!)

[KingKong.CCCP]

first thing, I'm not saying I'm the all knowing, allseeing prophet - I AM paying attention to what you guys are saying, and I will change the first message, thanks for your replies.

second, I'm not saying this is an ideal of infantry tw play... You can check all those SOPs, and threads with *complete* infantry fight framework - but I'm trying to find the best concept that will work in most cases, rather than aiming too high and not moving from the startline.




why 2 men FTs... two resons:

1. A PAIR is the smallest number of people where you can test your teamworking skills. It is a like 10 times easier to work with one fireteam member than with two. Two can make you loose the focus. Highlight one guy, check what he is doing every now and then, it's easy. Two guys are more difficult to see on the map, you have to switch from one to another.
Good working fireteams are very very rare. 2men or 3men.
I would satisfy with things that are easier to maintain.

2. better control... the goal is to make DEFAULT SQUAD FORMATION that dinamicaly shifts from column (squad on the run, without any special order, except "Just follow me" and running full speed), to wedge (everytime when contact with enemy is to be expected), and spreading to line (when the contact is made).
this is better with SL in the squad center. contact on the left side? - left and SLs fireteams open fire, right FT rotates to line up with the rest.


General Jok3r said:

on archer i have a 4-men FT covering and pounding while i and an engi/specops move to the cache. it is beautiful if you can direct the fire of 2 .50cals, a SAW and a LAT to enemy positions on the other side of a road

Ok, but I see no problem doing that with 3 fireteams... what you did, you had 4 guys (2 FTs) suppressing and one advancing.


hey bjoffe,
sometimes I can be a little bit rude, you know that
there are numbers of regular players with soooo many hours of PR gameplay behind them, yet they lack some basic skills. Couple of days ago, I had squad filled with *=LP=* guys (experience and teamwork is not to be questioned). At the very attack on East Al Burj I have set an temp RP, and in about 10 secs figured it is in a bad spot. I "ordered" the squad to move to a new position (with Move marker) and I repeated "Follow me", "MOVE TO TEH MOVE MARKER!", numerous times... and only Blaat was right there with me. The rest were chasing some freakin enemy RP... Felt realy stupid sitting on the blody marker remembering all the times I killed officer and one guy doing the same.
Needless to say, I got pissed off, attacked the flag alone, stoped communication, and when we lost our RP (in about a minute), and squad started dying, they where complaining me not placing the rally... ... ... I mean... ... ffs... ...

20 guys in this game are completely on the same page with me.
SQUAD IS NOT A DEMOCRATIC UNIT. SL gives orders, and "ours is not to ask why, ours is to do or dye!".
Why is it so difficult to understand? Follow orders, that's it. You don't like it - fine, make your own, I don't care... but it is impossible to organise a squad, if the guy who is covering left flank moves away, deserting his squadmates, making them an easy pray for any l337 noobster out there.
Even if the SL is a complete idiot, I don't complain, I don't bitch, I follow orders - at the point when it becomes meaningless, I leave the squad and make my one-man-army squad.

[PFunk]

As a total noob to the game myself I think its funny sometimes to see how the noobs with no mic are sometimes more responsive to following orders than the vets with their mics and their constant criticism and original ideas.

I was playing a round of Qwai last night and there were 3 squads on my team (and one was a very annoying 4 person locked) so I was forced to make my own squad even though I know I'm not good enough to think of wanting to lead as SL and I haven't got a mic yet.

So I start it but figuring it'd be a nice attempt at learning anyway and for giving other people an at least a nice try being tactical I name it "Teamwork". Before I even get out of the base suddenly I have 5 people in it... uh oh.

Most of them don't have mics but one guy does and he proceeds from the minute we begin to tell me exactly what I'm supposed to be doing, and not in the friendliest way either. In the kind of way that gets you demoted to bathroom detail in the real forces. "Okay SL you need to do this and set up an RP" and apparently because he can say it faster than I can type it I didn't know to do it before he told me. Then when we go to lay one because I take a few seconds to look around and see if there is a better spot I get this "can he even hear me?" comment.

Constant questioning of my orders and half the time he was nowhere near me and just kept marching ahead of the movement markers I'd lay. If I asked a question like "do we have any AT kits at the moment" it seemed like he treated it like an NCO asking a question and he'd answer it and then give an instruction.

I'm not saying I knew a terrible lot about leading but I know enough about infantry tactics from my own spare time reading and from watching enough vids of PR and being in a few well organized ones int he last week and a half to be able to not die that much. But before I'd even left the base I was getting pushed around by a guy just because he had a clan tag and a mic. It was still fun but he joined the squad I created. Not very polite.

[Dr2B Rudd]

Originally Posted by PFunk

Constant questioning of my orders and half the time he was nowhere near me and just kept marching ahead of the movement markers I'd lay. If I asked a question like "do we have any AT kits at the moment" it seemed like he treated it like an NCO asking a question and he'd answer it and then give an instruction.

Gotta be tough with those kinda guys, "dude, if you want to lead a squad, start one urself"

I remember on zatar had a guy telling me to get driving to the objective "go man go go go!!!"

"I'll bloody well go when the sniper has eyes on target, NOT BEFORE"

....

"sorry dude" lol

[KingKong.CCCP]

^ yea, that's just rude... it's very easy to become "the man in charge"... one or two clicks, nothing more... if you have chosen to join a squad, what's the problem?

[PFunk]

It occurred to me randomly today while thinking about tactics that with the 3 fireteam set up you could easily take one fireteam with a designated marksman or a sniper and peel them off as an independent sniper unit.

It seems to be a very flexible set up, even if not technically realistic.

[Top_Cat_AxJnAt]

Originally Posted by PFunk

It occurred to me randomly today while thinking about tactics that with the 3 fireteam set up you could easily take one fireteam with a designated marksman or a sniper and peel them off as an independent sniper unit.

It seems to be a very flexible set up, even if not technically realistic.

Exactly, specialized equipment such as HAT and sniper require 2 players to operate effectively, 1 to use the weapon itself and another to help spot, carry extra ammo and provide constant close protection.

It is absolutely vital specialized equipment like the HAT and sniper is used with the utmost care, with 2 team tactic always being used. NO EXCUSES!

Good to directly compare the ease at which a squad split into 3 - 2man fireteams, to a squad not organized into any fireteams can be organized part of the squad into a 2 man team needed to operate HAT, Sniper or another spec. equip.

It is ofcourse much more simple and quick for the SL whos squad is already organized into fireteams to do so. This is because he only has ask one FT to acquire themselves the necessary equipment. He does not have to do the following, while the SL whos squad is not organized into fireteam does have to address to 2 players individually, explain to them the need to stick together and that collectively they will be know as *name*/team.

Even when this is done, the players in the squad with out fireteams are less likely to have to the level of discipline and communication skills needed for the 2 man team to operate most effectively when inderpendant (where communication between 2 players is paramount) and with the squad (where clear, detailed communication with the SL is also paramount).

Therefore, 2 man Fireteams might be intitaly complex to organize, however in the long term, it enables the squad to adapt as quickly and simply and possible to using any of the avalible infantry weapons, to their to the maximum effectiveness.

[GavenJenno]

I like it, as I do this in real life, I can tell you that organization and knowledge of whom you're sticking with, and where the other fire team is are keys to success. Unfortunately I actually don't have a ton of experience with fire team stuff, as I rarely have more than 3 guys with me at any given time.

[Skodz]

Nice guide

[Teonanacatl]

If you have a teammate on vent or something similar you could try this organization:

Squad 1
Fireteam (Officers Name)
Officer - ODA (Very experienced player)
Sniper
Auto
Fireteam (Marksmans name)
Marksman
Medic
Engineer

Squad 2
Fireteam (Officers name)
Officer (Experienced Player)
Engineer
Grenadier
Fire team (Snipers Name)
Sniper
Auto
Engineer

Use similar squad names so that the commander knows what is going on. Always use bounding overwatch. One fire team provides overwatch while one fire team moves. Stay within 10-20m of your fireteam and maintain a proper perimeter.
With some type of armor providing overwatch; two squads can easily sweep, clear and hold the west village in al Basrah. Armor moves up and destroys east village tenements. Easily could mean 3 or more caches destroyed.

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

Nice guide but I would say there are more than 30 guys/ women who post on the forums regularly that are on the same page as you.
I think the player base is somewhere around 3000 ( haven't heard a number since .6 ) so I would guess there are probably 300 players total that are on the same page as you.

You must have had games where you ran into them.
Jabal is great place to experience the frustration of getting a random bad team while MEC gets a random good team.

I have had games as a CO that were over in 20 min because everyone, at least all the squad leaders did understand how to move and control their squads and by allowing them to communicate through the CO all the squads worked toward the same goal.
Usually 2 or 3 goals really, the defense, the building and the attack, in that order.

I have also been in those squads were people spread out and covered the compass during SL map check stops and then fallen back into line/ wedge to move forward.

I don't know how many other people do this but I use the Caplok map a lot to keep track of my squad when out of highlight distance ( great point that it is as important to not string out as to not bunch up ) and to keep track of other squads.
If you see 3 squad moving on your flank and 30sec later you check and 3 squad is down to 2 people ......well that might be a clue.

I don't want the mini-map back as I don't like the clutter on my screen but I think you still have to use the map to maintain formation unless you really practice and know the guys you are playing with.

Don't run unless you are in the column or you really need to.

If you walk you can hear much better and first detection usually means the difference between winning an engagement and having your squad wiped out.

Snipers as part of a squad, IMHO, is vastly overrated and I think snipers should be in their own squads, doing sniper things.

But it is a great guide and I hope more people realize the squad leading is a matter of trial and error and experience so if you don't take the job, you will never learn it.