Tougher training Marines or Army? Number two

[[R-MOD]Bob_Marley]

So, its a G36 cunningly disgused as an M4A1 with an RIS/RAS system.

[=NAA=Spaztik_Ferret]

I like it...but I STILL want my M468 dammit.

[Wraith]

I have to agree with Trogdor on this. The Tavor is the #1 rifle in the world right now. It surpasses the british weopons in accuracy and range. Highing firing rate on auto than the m16/m4 varients and is super fun to shoot. Of course my m4 will ALWAYS hold a special place in my heart. RIP old buddy.

[trogdor1289]

Finally someone backs me up on the Tavor. As to the M468 what is that all about? Also I never understood why they gave the M16 3 round burst instead of full auto? Just read about the M468 seems like a really good idea just buy the uppers and convert the exisiting weapons I assume it will be for M4 too?
And only: Upper Conversion Kit Price: $1,494 what a bargian. Although the budget hounds will still be unhappy about that and will go ahead and buy an 13 milion plane instead.

[=NAA=Spaztik_Ferret]

M16A1 which was in Vietnam was full auto. They made it burst in the A2 version to keep barrels from overheating and so soldiers would conserve ammo.
Oh and the M468 is an upper reciever for an M16 or M4 that shoots the 6.8MM Rem SPC. Much better ammo than 5.56MM. The upper is made by Barrett.

[trogdor1289]

Yeah I've been reading about how weak the 5.56MM is I actually have a 7.62 and a 5.56 in front of me right now and looking at the .223 Remington one and knowing it is designed to go right through leaving a small hole does not fill me with confidence. The solution is either 6.8 MM and the M468, which is cheap, easy to train on being essentialy the same weapon, and powerfull. Or take the eay way out and make the standard issue 5.56MM expanding or hollow point. If when I get done with my Marine training I get sent to Iraq with 5.56MM's and the M16's/M4 crappy record I will be unable to be confident in my own weaponary.
Of course this debate is academic the bean counters in Washigton not to mention the Arms companies involved will keep this isssue in the air for years to come.

[=NAA=Spaztik_Ferret]

Trog, don't be such a little war-monger. Lol, Iraq is not a fun place, and I know you want to be a hero....everyone does...but it isn't one of those things you should hope for.
Now, the M16 is a good weapon, not the best but once you get some time behind a buttstock you'll eventually come to terms that with the right training it will get the job done and get you back in one peice. The 468 is a better weapon for close to midrange firefights, I don't think it can hang with the 5.56 in a distance match though.
With any luck you'll be manning a M240G, .50 Cal, or MK-19. No lack of confidence there.

[USM-ST3.Spyder]

The M-16A4 is badass, accurate, powerfull (I don't wanna hear but it's only a 5.56 a bullet is a bullet) and the A4 is fully customizable. With some tweaks it would continue to be the best.

[trogdor1289]

Ferret I don't want to go and anyone who does needs to be drummed out of the Military. I am saying if I am sent I want to have a weapon I have confidence in.

[00SoldierofFortune00]

Originally Posted by [R-PUB]trogdor1289

Ferret I don't want to go and anyone who does needs to be drummed out of the Military. I am saying if I am sent I want to have a weapon I have confidence in.

And what do you think the troops over there now are putting their faith into? If thousands have done it before, I am sure one person could. The only practical thing is to switch to a weapon with the same M16/M4 arginomic(sp?) and at a cheap price.

Everyone is too busy looking at how "cool" a gun looks and a few inside details instead of looking at the costs of it all. Retraining all the soldiers or marines in the armed forces, buying new optics or attachments to fit it, ammo if it is changed, and transportation.

And unless the weapon gives you a huge leap over the current one, it isn't worth it because you may kill more people in the process by giving them a completely new weapon while in combat which you don't know how the weapon will react to its environment or enemy.

The Marines did the right thing by upgrading to the M16A4 and its M4 counterpart because it can use the old M16A2s for its recruits and for training while giving Marines in battle the new weapon which is nearly the same thing as the A2, so no new training is needed and cost is cut down substantly. Think of what new weapons have to go through in bootcamp and then think about having twice to three time+ the number used weapons which can be easily replaced when they are too worn or broken down as oppose to buying even more new weapons.

The rumors about the M16 round's effectiveness are probably just that, rumors. If the round was such crap, there would be more deaths from fire fights then IEDs. Insurgents and terrorists know they cannot compete and win against the US infantry, so why buy something that won't improve their ability to win those already won battles?

Why do you think they resort to IEDs instead of gathering huge number of their forces and others and just attacking?

And no one is going to switch to the 6.8. It would be way to costly, take new training, new barrels, and would have to replace all arms with other types of ammo. Just because the bullets look similar but one is a little bigger, doesn't mean they will act the same either.