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Old 07-02-2006, 09:17 AM   #21
Topf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Figisaacnewton
It's just like gun control in a single country, as I see it so far. Outlaw it, and only the bad guys will have em, while the good guys are kinda screwed.
Well...this is kinda how it should be, the government should have a "monopol" on exercising power; Justice should not be exercised by some freaks who have guns.
See Germany; Selling weapons too people without a permission to use weapons is strictly illegal, our murdery rate is far lower than the one in other countries. (and even fewer murderys are committed with guns)


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Old 07-02-2006, 03:25 PM   #22
NikovK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakeJr
What I'm getting at is that as inert a weapon may be it is still potentially dangerous in the hands of a child.
There are at least a dozen ways a child can kill himself in the kitchen alone, all far less complicated than operating a firearm.

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Old 07-02-2006, 06:13 PM   #23
[k]MuffinMaster

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Figisaacnewton
It's just like gun control in a single country, as I see it so far. Outlaw it, and only the bad guys will have em, while the good guys are kinda screwed.
As Topf stated... NOT TRUE.
I know this opinion is widely spread in the US (Bruce Willis stated this once)
but its complete nonesense.
The high density of firearms FORCES the criminal to arm better than the rest of
the society.
In the old days, a mugger could rob you with a knife. Threat you and run away with the cash. If everybody is armed he has to fear to get shot in the back!
So what does he? Shoot you first and rob you then...

You won't fight crime this way, you just make them more brutal.

-MuffinMaster, former [R-CON]

".....there's a life past those weapons you know." -[R-DEV]Gaz

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Old 07-02-2006, 07:58 PM   #24
Crawley
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Quote:
As Topf stated... NOT TRUE.
I know this opinion is widely spread in the US (Bruce Willis stated this once)
but its complete nonesense.
The high density of firearms FORCES the criminal to arm better than the rest of
the society.
In the old days, a mugger could rob you with a knife. Threat you and run away with the cash. If everybody is armed he has to fear to get shot in the back!
So what does he? Shoot you first and rob you then...

You won't fight crime this way, you just make them more brutal.
Thats why every state that has allowed carrying conceled weapons has drasitically lowered its violent crime rates? hmmm....
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Old 07-02-2006, 09:01 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawley
Thats why every state that has allowed carrying conceled weapons has drasitically lowered its violent crime rates? hmmm....
exactly, oh and the thing about the government having a monopoly, it should NOT be this way because too much power has corrupted nations time and time again(take a look at history for once). Thats y the US is a democracy because that is the way proven that works best.


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Old 07-03-2006, 10:58 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Agent Johnson
exactly, oh and the thing about the government having a monopoly, it should NOT be this way because too much power has corrupted nations time and time again(take a look at history for once). Thats y the US is a democracy because that is the way proven that works best.
Seriously, Europeans (no offence intended) have been pacified into submission, as an American I do NOT want to end up like you guys over there. Govt should not have the monopoly on power, our country was founded with that in mind and for good reason.

And for the question about where your gun is, and kids getting killed. Where do you store all your cleaning products, because if your kid is young enough to drink some drano that is more dangerous than a gun being hidden somewhere and if the kid is older, you should teach them to know better, WHICH IS POSSIBLE, kids are smart if you put some knowledge in them.

I agree with Crawley (OMG lol) the UN is hinting at our 2nd amendment rights, they fundamentally disagree with us having that right and they will try to do something about it. Our govt and poilce can already take your guns away, in an "emergency" NG and Police took weapons from many many people in New Orleans during katrina, and these were mainly the people who stayed to protect thier property from looters, THESE ARE UPPER MIDDLE CLASS WHITES, getting a knock on the door and being told to surrender your weapons, people were hand cuffed and forced to comply if they refused. Say bye bye to the gun your grandpa gave you, your AR15, your glock and you won't be getting them back. The guns seized during that time were not returned and misplaced because of the state of chaos. And the people whos guns were taken, were mostly allowed to stay, just without any guns. Research it, it happend all over N.O.

http://www.nationalreview.com/commen...0603210744.asp

Something for you europeans who think having no guns is safer..

Not only do law-abiding citizens with guns deter many criminals from committing a crime to begin with: Possessing a gun is the safest way to confront a criminal if you are forced to.

Deterrence works. The United States has one of the world's lowest “hot” burglary rates (burglaries committed while people are in the building) at 13 percent, compared to the “gun-free” British rate of 59 percent. Surveys of convicted burglars indicate American burglars spend at least twice as long as their British counterparts casing a house before breaking in. That explains why American burglars rarely break into homes when the residents are there. The reason most American burglars give for taking so much time is that they’re afraid of getting shot.


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Old 07-03-2006, 11:55 AM   #27
Agent Johnson

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some quotes from various people:
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin
"The strength of the Constitution lies entirely in the determination of each citizen to defend it. Only if every single citizen feels duty bound to do his share in this defense are the constitutional rights secure."
-- Albert Einstein
"The right of citizens to bear arms is just one guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against the tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proved to be always possible."
-- Senator Hubert H. Humphrey (D-Minnesota) "Guns Magazine - Feb. 1960, Page 4"
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
-- Mahatma Gandhi in "Gandhi, An Autobiography"
"...to disarm the people (is) the best and most effective way to enslave them..."
-- George Mason

"Government is not reason. It is not eloquence. It is a force, like fire; a dangerous servant and a terrible master."
-- George Washington
"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them..."
-- Richard Henry Lee, 1787

"There are going to be situations where people are going to go without assistance. That's just the facts of life."
--LA Chief of Police, Gates.
"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.
--George Washington


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Old 07-03-2006, 01:35 PM   #28
Figisaacnewton

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiN|ScarFace
I agree with Crawley (OMG lol)
*Falls out of chair*

WTF!?!

Well, anyways... holy crap we agree on this exactly...

Anyways:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Topf
Well...this is kinda how it should be, the government should have a "monopol" on exercising power
Wait, so in your ideal world, the government should be an absolute, unchallengable authority? What? If the government is the only body that can exercise power, then the people become slaves, and democracy dies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-CON
[k]MuffinMaster]
The high density of firearms FORCES the criminal to arm better than the rest of
the society.
In the old days, a mugger could rob you with a knife. Threat you and run away with the cash. If everybody is armed he has to fear to get shot in the back!
So what does he? Shoot you first and rob you then...

You won't fight crime this way, you just make them more brutal.
The statistics beg to differ. Sin pointed out a few, I'll try and find some more.

Regardless of any of the statistics, or viewpoints, or anything, the right of our 2nd Amendment guarentees us the right to bear arms. Read your history books, and you'll see how many Americans like giving up their rights to huge international bodies... It's pretty damn close to zero.

So, unless the UN wants to amend our Constitution, then I don't think so.

And just a comment about the safety of having a gun in the house with small children: Having a gun or not doesn't matter, its how responsible the parent is, and whether the parents are willing to take the time to teach the kid that guns are dangerous.

When I was...oh 6, my dad made me watch this stupid 'Eddie Eagle' gun safety video like 4 times a week for 2 weeks.
'What do you do when you see a gun kids?'
'Stop!'
'Don't Touch!'
'Leave the area!'
'Tell an adult!'

Anyways, the only gun I ever saw in my house was a bb gun, sitting up in top shelf of the garage that I could never reach. Still can't reach it w/o a ladder. Gun accidents are just accidents; unsafe houses led by unsafe parents lead to accidents, not guns. Any responsible parents shows children the danger of guns, in fact teaching a child to hunt at a young age can change his mindset considerably, when , for the first time, he pulls the trigger and kills that deer, and recognizes the power of these guns, the ability to completely take life just by... well practically pointing and clicking. A child who understands and fears and respects a gun is far less likely to get into an accident with one.


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Old 07-03-2006, 02:40 PM   #29
mrmong
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the best way to survive a dangerous situation with weapons involved is to be passive and do what they say, i think a few hundred dollars is worth my life, going "Cowboy" isnt going to help anyone.

guns for "home protection" usually create a major drama and most players flap and start shooting.
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Old 07-03-2006, 03:02 PM   #30
Figisaacnewton

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Um... example: My neighbors lived in Arizona. One night, some idiot tried to break into their house via bedroom window (ground level). The crook didn't realize my freind and his older brother were awake in that bedroom. My freinds older brother crept out of the room while the bad guy was ducking up and down trying to case the place and break the window open. The older brother grabbed the shot gun, and sat on a chair next to the window, jsut out of sight of the window from outside.

The crook broke in, fell to the ground, to see a guy with a shotgun sitting over him. My freinds older brother said 'Get the F^ck out' and the crook jumped out the window and sprinted away.

Hurrah for guns!


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