Loose Change 2nd Edition

[Eden]

I'm not even going to say those two words because a lot of you will not watch the movie and dismiss it as bull.

But I found it very interesting, it gets your mind thinking and at the very least you can appreciate the quality of the documentary they made.

Stream: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...59923762628848
Torrent (DVD quality): http://ts.searching.com/torrent/5065...Edition_DVDRip

I definitely suggest you download the torrent version, the quality is far superior. (it is free btw so don't worry)

I know there's a *cough*locked*cough* topic a page back already but there's no link to the torrent version, so keep it civil this time.

I'm actualy doing a little research my self on this and it is actualy quite fun, ive learned a lot about building construction, melting points, demolitions and fires.

[SufF3R]

Thank you.. I love this conspiracy stuff.

Ok, I just finished the video and it is freaking amazing

Ask questions, demand answers.

[Pence]

Last time it was just dismissed, i think you should look.

[Eden]

Originally Posted by SufF3R

Ask questions, demand answers.

I think that's my main interest in a lot of conspiracy theories. Its not nesseseraly that that people make them up for fun a lot of people want answers to questions that most of the time the government refuse to answer, so you go to find them yourself and you end up with a lot of information that contradicts what the government has being saying.

One thing I tend to say to everyone who dismisses the above video without even watching it "Give me one piece of solid evidence that WTC 1, 2 & 3 fell under there own power" Ive yet to have it answered.

[AznLB]

Originally Posted by Eden

One thing I tend to say to everyone who dismisses the above video without even watching it "Give me one piece of solid evidence that WTC 1, 2 & 3 fell under there own power" Ive yet to have it answered.

Give me one peice of evidence they didn't fall under their own power. Do you not understand the concept of the collapse? Let me sum it up for you:
Plane hit building, fuel make fire, fire get hot, fire weaken but not melt steel, floor collapse, floor make next floor collapse, and so on and so on.

The people who make up these theories are college kids and hippies who need meaning in their lives. They aren't experts, but they produce a video very well to make it look like they know what they're talking about.

Being an avid pilot and aviation enthusiast, and also having friends and relatives present at the time of the collapse, I have no doubt in my mind that the WTC collapse was caused by a freaking HUNK OF STEEL slamming into each tower, and an really hot fire weakening steel.

Say what you want, I would stake my life on what I say, and I say there was no demolition, no conspiracies, just a very tragic attack by misguided douchebags.

[Eden]

Originally Posted by AznLB

Give me one peice of evidence they didn't fall under their own power. Do you not understand the concept of the collapse? Let me sum it up for you:
Plane hit building, fuel make fire, fire get hot, fire weaken but not melt steel, floor collapse, floor make next floor collapse, and so on and so on.

The people who make up these theories are college kids and hippies who need meaning in their lives. They aren't experts, but they produce a video very well to make it look like they know what they're talking about.

Being an avid pilot and aviation enthusiast, and also having friends and relatives present at the time of the collapse, I have no doubt in my mind that the WTC collapse was caused by a freaking HUNK OF STEEL slamming into each tower, and an really hot fire weakening steel.

Say what you want, I would stake my life on what I say, and I say there was no demolition, no conspiracies, just a very tragic attack by misguided douchebags.

If your an avid pilot then you would know that a plan (commercial) is made out of an aluminium alloy, titanium (for the engines) and glue.

Buildings have had planes crash into them before. July 28, 1945 a B-25 bomber crashed into the Empire state building, it hit the 79th floor leveling a 18 foot by 20 foot hole in the side of the building. The fuel from the plane exploded sending a massive fireball into the building which reached the 75th floor.

The buildings structure was relatively intact apart from the hole in the side. This building was never built with the thought that a plane would crash into it, WTC 1 & 2 were built to withstand a hit from a 707.

You are suggestion that the building collapsed under the pancake theory? If you don't even give a second look a this particular conspiracy theory then why do you believe in the pancake theory? after all the pancake theory relies on 9 other theories to even work.

The government believe that the buildings collapse was due to the pancake theory. For the pancake theory to work it relies on the collapse initiation theories which include creep buckling theory, progressing column instability theory and the pile-driver theory. It also relies on the truss failure theory which in turn relies on the zipper theory, angle bracket theory, column splice failure theory and freestanding core column theory. And finally it relies on the shock wave theory

That in its self shows that it is extremely unlikely the building fell under there own power, the pancake theory is one of the only theory that relies so heavily on other theories to work.

Now I could also go into the particulars of gravity and center of gravity's to show that if the buildings did fall because of the pancake theory they would have not fallen the way they did and i will explain it if need be but some of that is covered anyway in the video.

This is what every person does, I ask them that question and they do not answer it instead they ask me the same question. Well I have answered it and I believe I have answered it fairly well, now i have not included everything Galileo's law of falling bodies for example (in the video) but ill talk about that if you want me to.

So I have been patient I have answered my own question, now... Would you care to do the same and answer the question that I have previously asked?

[Nevermore]

Does anyone else find that comparing the size of a circa 1945, B25 "Billy Mitchell" bomber to one of the modern civilian airliners that slammed into the WTC as a retarded comparison?

Incidentally, modern airliners arent GLUED together either, ever been up next to one, they are pop-riveted together, just like just about every modern airliner in the world, they stopped using glue on them once they broke that 200 MPH airspeed mark fellas, Glue wont hold with the Physics, any glue on an airliner is used INSIDE on shit like seats and upholstery.

They are apples n' oranges people, not only are they not even similar in size, they have different fuels, and different construction materials, Differing velocities, etc...... So your 'consipracy theory' regarding that is null and totally void.

Not to mention the difference in BUILDINGS, the Empire State being mostly constructed of huge IRON I-Beams and Brick, the WTC being mostly smaller iron framework and glass.

HUGE FRIGGIN DIFFERENCES. Plain and simple.

B25 with people for size comparison: http://www.ericsiegmund.com/images/f...ho2004/b25.jpg

WTC Airliner: http://www.zap16.com/images/n612ua_c_borda.jpg

notice any REAL GLARING differences? Aside from the huge difference in size, locomotion, fuel, airspeed, building materials and engineering? Shesh! Incomparable.

Its like saying hitting a bug @ 50 MPH and hitting a Bird @ 500 MPH is even remotely similar. {well maybe if your the bird or the bug it is }

[Eden]

I was mearly using the empire state building as an example of on of the very few buildings to have a plane crash into it, but you did mix up a few things the Empire State buildings frame work was made of iron beams and bricks (which btw is weaker then concrete) where as the WTC tower was made of 200,000 tonnes of steel frame work, concrete and each tower had a 87x133 foot core.

My mistake on the makeup of planes ill keep in mind that glue is not used I did however know that they were riveted together I should have mentioned that.

So would you care to answer my question?

[AznLB]

Also keep in mind that the B-25 uses less flammable fuel than the highly explosive jet fuel used in a modern jet airliner. It also carries alot less.

Eden, you've done a wounderful job of proving my point: you don't know much if anything about what you're defending. A multi-million dollar Boeing 767 that rockets through the sky at .8 mach is held together with, "glue"?

Anyway, this isn't even relevant. It's not that the aircraft hit the building, it's what the aircraft was carrying when it hit the building: lots and lots of jet fuel, about 24,000 gallons worth. Highly explosive Jet-A fuel. Obviously, after almost an hour of intense heat from said jet fuel (Which reached about 2000 Farenheit, steel melts at 2500 Farenheit), the steel support columns began to fail, not melt, but weaken to the point that they bent and finally collapsed, similar to dominoes.

If you want to overcomplicate things and sound smart by bringing in a bunch of useless variables, then fine, but don't expect me to take you seriously. It's not that hard of a concept to grasp, explain, or understand. There aren't "9 different theories", it's one truth, and it's been proven over and over again through study of the left over metal, video footage of the collapse, and eyewitness testimony.

It's not even worth trying to get through to you and your thick-headed, anti-American buddies. You blatently discredit anything or anyone that disagrees with you and your opinion, no matter how reliable or credible a source it is. However you'll jump on the bandwagon with any anti-American conspiracy, even if it was lead by a complete and total crackpot.

[Eden]

What make you believe I am anti-American?
What makes you believe ill "blatently discredit anything or anyone"?
What makes you believe ill "jump on the bandwagon with any anti-American conspiracy"?

I never said these things.

And I am by no means trying to sound smart by chucking out a load of technical details, I am mearly attempting to bring together information that will help prove or disprove what happened.