Forgotten Hope 2 (BF2 Mod)

[Outlawz7]

Not really, not all maps seem to have the Push mode or the markers don't show all the time or sth. Anyway, I don't think FH2 gameplay should be exactly like PR's, but I do agree the gameplay should be slowed down and some stuff changed, what I can think of atm:

-flag and SL spawns replaced with firebases and rally points, but in the interest of "action" without any overrun mechanics like PR currently has, more like PR 0.6/0.7 system, it would defo be an improvement over spawning out of someone's arse in a cellar or in some barn just behind the enemy advancing to your flag

-kit limiting set to a request system like PR, so you couldn't just spawn as AT out in the middle of nowhere and have pick up kits everywhere than can be used by your enemy

-remove the overhead camera on mortars; it would be better if you needed someone to tell you where to adjust or re-spot for you other than giving you a quick spot from where you can rain down arty like some uber-god because the camera enables you to see and hear everything and also use the commo rose to spot (!)

-tone down the twitch accuracy on rifles and get rid of instaproning with the new 1.5 code like PR did, also perhaps removing the zoom off ironsights would get rid of twitch sniping, since the actual sniper rifles are more of a cosmetic thing when a regular ironsight rifle has enough accuracy and zoom to the job instead

-increase CP capture times, so you don't just rush to a flag, wait 10 seconds and move off; if you plan to keep flag spawns, at least make the neutralize time shorter than capture, so you don't get enemies spawning on top of you while the flag is going down.

That'd be something "in between" current FH2 and current PR, of course I could go on about kill messages, crosshair, minimap, but just any of the above would be an improvement.
I do agree that almost all BF2 mods seem to offer content but no entirely new gameplay, but I don't advocate turning every mod into PR's cousin either.

[Ts4EVER]

I think FH2 works fine and is different enough from vanilla in its present state. If I could just hex a PR - WW2 into existence, this is how I would do it (long post ahead):

In my opinion as a mostly FH2 player these are the two things that set PR apart and define it:

1. Open maps, where players "make the gameplay"
2. Teamwork and squad cohesion

Personally I would cut back on the first aspect a bit. Most PR maps we have right now are of a "meeting engagement" type right now, with both teams having a mainbase and a bunch of gray flags between them. I'd like to go to an "assault" type of gameplay, where one side has to advance while the other is defending. With Push/AAS this usually looks like this:



In the beginning, the attacker has the bleed. Once you cap a certain number of flags the bleed stops or is given to the enemy.

The second aspect I would like to cut back is logistics. In PR it makes a lot of sense because you can build fortifications, thus creating the objectives for the gameplay. However, it has one huge drawback: It pulls away players from the main infantry. We have only 32 players at most and imo as many as possible should be in an active combat role. When I play PR I feel like being on a patrol in a half squad of people and that is fine, but I don't feel like part of a big battle. And I think that is what we should aim for in a WW2 version.

Because of this I'd like to reintroduce an old concept: Spawns at flags. Now before you all scream bloody murder, hear me out. I don't suggest normal style spawns at hte objective flags. Instead I suggest introduction of a concept I will call "spawn areas" for now.

Basically these spawn areas are flas too, but they don't influence ticket bleed, give points or assets when capped or are even visible on the map. These areas form a tight grid of capzones over the whole map and all have spawnpoints attached tot hem in reasonably spawnrape proof locations.



Most of those would be neutral at the start, some would belong to a certain team. These spawn areas have some special functions:

1: They get greyed very fast. So once a number of enemies enter one of your spawn areas, they get greyed out and you have to spawn further back to reinforce your position.
2: They take a long time to cap. So to get a new spawn point the area needs to be under your control for a certain time.

I hope you understand what you are getting at. Say Team 1 is attacking a flag. Once they are close to it, Team 2 can't spawn in the contested area anymore. Reinforcements come from the back. After a firefight, Team 1 moves into position and captures the objective flag. They keep advancing, contesting the next spawn area etc. Basically, a frontline moving forward.

To avoid too much "trickling in" of reinforcements, I'd suggest adding a spawn wave system like in FH2, so that people spawn at the same time. Say your infantry squad gets wiped out by a tank: You just say "OK guys, everyone spawn at D4" and the whole squad spawns there at the same time, ready to rejoin the fray.

To avoid "backcapping" of these spawn areas by single sneaking infantrymen they must of course be set to require several people to be capped, or they would be connected by a push system of their own.

One remainder of the logistics system would be the firebase. This would work differently than its current counterpart. Instead of providing spawns it would provide:
1: A place to request limited kits
2: Ammo (this will be important later on)

And most of all, they would lock the spawn area they are placed in so it can't be capped or greyed until the firebase is destroyed. Each team has one firebase. The attacker usually starts witht he one firebase already placed in the "mainbase", the defender could have a randomized one near the first flag or something.
It can be placed by the commander and is then build per shovel by normal infantry like usual.

This setup would be perfect imo for a map where one team attacks the other. The attacking team would have like 2 tanks and one apc with mg, the defenders several randomized AT gun positions from the start.

2. Squad cohesion
By now you will probably think "Yeah but when you can spawn relatively close to the front, why would you stay with your squad, you can just lonewolf" and you are right. Squad cohesion in PR is mostly achieved by the inability of the single player to stay in a fight for long.

No squad = no medic, no rally point

With my approach I'd like to somewhat change that to a system where not being in a squad limits your ability to kill people.

Basically, if you are not in a squad you can't have limited kits. In PR you can still run around with a badass scoped semi automatic rifle and binoculars etc. In PR WW2 you would have an unscoped semi auto rifle at most, in most cases a bolt action rife. On top of that, no binocs for a normal rifleman.
In present PR the machinegun deals out the most firepower in an infantry squad. In PR WW2, the gap between normal rifleman and machine gun would be even bigger.
So what keeps people from joining a squad, taking the mg and then running off doing their own thing and ramboing it up?
Easy: ammo

I'd say the normal machine gunner should have 100 shots of ammo at most. Considering how long firefights take with PRs weapon system and how fast an mG42 shoots, that is not very much. The only source of resupply: the riflemen, who have an ammo resupply kit like in normal PR.
So both aspects of the squad are co-dependant:
No MG, no firepower
No riflemen, no ammunition

I would even completely do away with medics. I always hated the system, felt awkward and forced, even though I have to admit it works. I think with a mix of ammo dependency and frontline spawns we can do without them.

3. Selectable kits
I think this setup would work best for the spawn menu:

1. NCO (sl only duh)
2. Rifleman 1 (unlimited)
3. Rifleman 2 (unlimited)
4. Scout (unlimited)
5. Grenadier (1 per squad)
6. Machine gunner (1 per squad)
7. Special weapon (2 per team)

What would be in this kit? Well, let's just say our map is a real classic, normandy 1944, American infantry vs German Infanterie. I'll start with the riflemen:

Rifleman: This is the bread and butter type of class. It has a rifle, extra ammo for the MG, a shovel, some grenades. There should be a slight difference between the two riflemen classes to mix stuff up a bit. Say one kit has a bayonet attached to the rifle for one shot kills in close combat and the other only the rifle butt, but an extra grenade or something. The German Schuetze uses the K98k, the American the M1 Garand.

NCO: The NCO carries a treasure: The binoculars. These not only allow him t see farther, but also to call in artillery spots for the mortar squad (more on that later). The American would carry a Thompson M1A1, the German an MP40. Both would also have a sidearm + grenades and smoke grenades.

Scout: This would basically be a stripped down rifleman. instead of the extra ammo he carries binoculars. This class would mostly be useful as spotters for mortar squads or as an additional set of eyes for an infantry squad. Carries a K98k for the Germans and perhaps an M1 carbine for the Amis.

Grenadier: A normal rifleman with a riflegrenade attachment for his rifle. Not much else explanation needed.

Machinegunner: The center piece of the squad. Carries the machine gun (MG42 or BAR) and a sidearm. Obviously this puts the Americans at an disadvantage a bit, but on the other hand they have more automatic rifles. If anything it would require different tactics for different nations which would be really awesome.

Special Weapon: This is something new. This kit can't be requested at a firebase. The idea behind this is to add alternative weapons that don't have a special function like an mG or a sniper, but mix stuff up a bit. They are only limited per team, so you could have all available pieces in one squad if you are lucky. Basically these are weapons that were issued in a certain army, but not in very big numbers or to everyone. For our Normandy example, this could be a kit with the G43 semi-automatic rifle for the Germans and an alternative rifle kit with the M1 Carbine for the Americans.

4. Requestable kits

Here are some obvious changes. No medic for one thing, but also no AA kit obviously. I'd melt together the Marksman and sniper kits into one sharpshooter kit (limited to one per team), consisting of a scoped Springfield or K98k, a sidearm and binoculars.

The rifleman AT kit would become a "tankhunter" kit, consisting of some kind of close combat explosions (a satchel charge, At grenade or faustpatrone/Panzerfaust type of weapon) and a rifle or carbine.

The heavy AT kit would contain a Bazooka/ Panzerschreck plus a sidearm, or an AT rifle on earlier maps.

I would also delete the pilot kit and planes altogether. Propeller planes don't work on this engine, believe me.

The crewman kit would be pretty much unchanged, with a pistol. I would also add a tank commander kit, which can only be requested by a squad leader. it would work like a normal crewman kit, but also has binoculars and a machine pistol (M3 Greasegun/ MP40).

New additions would be the mortar and heavy mG kit. These would pretty much work like in FH2. People can place spots with their binoculars, the mortar uses the numbers to "zero in" and shoots. No overhead view though, instead the spotter tells the mortar where his shots land. A good squad would be a squad leader with the NCO kit and a squad member sitting in the mortar. Or the other way around and the squad member takes the scout kit.
The mG (MG42 tripod/ M1919) is set up like in FH2.

For some special missions it might be nice to have a requestable flamethrower kit.

Yeah, that's about it I guess. I still haven't thought about how the commander would work tbh. Other than that... Would you play that?

[77SiCaRiO77]

minus the remove of planes and top view for mortars , all that sounds great

[Ts4EVER]

Originally Posted by [R-DEV]77SiCaRiO77

minus the remove of planes and top view for mortars , all that sounds great

I wrote that the top view would be removed. About planes: Personally I don't care for them and I think they only take away valuable player slots, especially considering that they can't be properly portrayed in the BF2 engine.

[masterceo]

I like all your ideas, but what about the deviation? As of now, the player with the best reflex wins, even if he's lonewolfing with a simple bolt action rifle.

[Ts4EVER]

Originally Posted by masterceo

I like all your ideas, but what about the deviation? As of now, the player with the best reflex wins, even if he's lonewolfing with a simple bolt action rifle.

I should have written that: The concept uses PR as a basis. So if I didn't mention it, it works like in PR, not FH2. FH2 is a whole other story.

[masterceo]

Right, this concept sounds ace to me, I would certainly play FH2 more.

[Ts4EVER]

Just for the record: I love FH2 the way it is. This would be a totally different game, PR WW2.

[77SiCaRiO77]

Originally Posted by Ts4EVER

I wrote that the top view would be removed. About planes: Personally I don't care for them and I think they only take away valuable player slots, especially considering that they can't be properly portrayed in the BF2 engine.

helis and planes in PR are not represented completaly realistic in PR eigther , but removing them will just remove another layer of combat , one that IMO can be usefull if coded correctly . also , with all the spawn points , you wouldnt notice 2 or 3 players less in the battle.

top view for mortars is needed because players of other squads also can spot , and unlike mordern warfare , the small mortar bateries in WW2 didnt needed the comander aproval to strike .

[Ts4EVER]

Yes but in WW2 most squad leaders weren't directly hooked up to the mortar So ingame you could have mortar support for your squad, but for really well aimed fire you'd need a dedicated spotter in the mortar squad.