what dictatorship would u rather be living in !

[[R-MOD]Saobh]

Originally Posted by ArmedDrunk&Angry

Be realistic, pragmatism is the name of the game.

Well I'm sorry but the realists during the WW2 where those who resisted.
And those who just shown themselves as "pragmatics" just found an other name to replace "yellow belly traitors",as they always do.

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

OK
You have the leverage with the Nazis, an easy choice from this far away.
I just have my doubts as to how many people will take up arms and watch their families be killed so they can say they're not " yellow belly cowards ".
Realism, what actually happens.
How many people were there in France in 1940 and how many actually assisted the resistance ?
And, most important, what good did it do ?
I'm too old and have too much of a "checkered past" to ever get in the Army let alone the police so I am speaking hypothetically.
I told people in the late 80s we would be a police state and they laughed at me and now, well we all know about the Patriot Act and wiretaps and UAVs and satellites and yet we don't seem to have a resistance.
Oh we have the sideliners like Chris, the cheerleaders like Scarface and the real resistance like those folks who didn't pay their taxes but out of 300 million+ people they don't add up to much.

[[R-MOD]Saobh]

Originally Posted by ArmedDrunk&Angry

OK
You have the leverage with the Nazis, an easy choice from this far away.
I just have my doubts as to how many people will take up arms and watch their families be killed so they can say they're not " yellow belly cowards ".
Realism, what actually happens.
How many people were there in France in 1940 and how many actually assisted the resistance ?

French population around 1940, around 40 million (metropolitan France)
The French resistance didn't start out full blown right in 1940 as we had just suffered a crushing and humiliating defeat. But by 1944 it is estimated that around 400000 to 500000 took part in active resistance, around a million of active sympathizers and finally an estimated 10% of the population reading the pamphlets and doing small resistance acts (like indicating the wrong directions to German soldiers)

Yes the numbers are low, maybe 1-2% of the whole population. But those are the numbers who count, the active part of a society that make or break it if they stay idle, the rest just follow suite like everywhere.

And, most important, what good did it do ?

To ask such a question really bewilders me as to what is really taught in American schools. As well as having no clue as the psych of a population under an occupation.
Its like asking if the American Revolution was worth it

An interesting page which sums up the extent and signification of the French resistance.

- Counter- propaganda
- Information gathering for Special Operations Executive (SOE)
- Escape networks for Jews, resistants and Allies
- Sabotage of crucial occupant assets
- Assassinations of key of German military personnel as well as colloboraters

The Maquis, which forced the occupants to keep a larger then expected number of troops in the conquered area ( rather then sending them on the fronts)

And finally helping stall German reinforcements for D-Day, with acts of sabotage in the whole country as well as a growing armed insurrection comprising several thousands of men each time.

So I do believe that in the end resistance did have an impact. One of which, and it has its importance, is being able to look back at that period without being completely being ashamed of ourselves.



Oh and by the way, the French Social security is a product of the French Resistance movement. Defined by the Conseil national de la Résistance by the ordonance of 4 october 1945:

« art. 1er — Il est institué une organisation de la sécurité sociale destinée à garantir les travailleurs et leurs familles contre les risques de toute nature susceptibles de réduire ou de supprimer leur capacité de gain, à couvrir les charges de maternité et les charges de famille qu’ils supportent »

And which proved, along with other social advancements, effective in putting France back unto its feet. Those actions you can call "pragmatism"

I told people in the late 80s we would be a police state and they laughed at me and now, well we all know about the Patriot Act and wiretaps and UAVs and satellites and yet we don't seem to have a resistance.
Oh we have the sideliners like Chris, the cheerleaders like Scarface and the real resistance like those folks who didn't pay their taxes but out of 300 million+ people they don't add up to much.

Thats the difference with an inside and outside threat. When it comes from inside, when the institutions themselves are used to enslave people its a slow cancer made of corruption and ideology.
Not much different from what happened in Germany in a way. It didn't become a totalitarian state in a day.
A Democracy is a very fickle thing, which can easily become a tyranny when too few people stand guard for its basic principles.
Its just easier being a lamb and accept whatever those in power say.

[SiN|ScarFace]

How many people actually supported our revolution, let alone fought it? Not many, not even half at the time. France? Spain? Iraq? It makes no difference where, the majority sit idly by and don't care, say it's pointless or have made peace with the establishment while the few who are fed up actually do something. This is after the brown stuff hits the fan, not before.

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

I honestly don't remember what the lessons on the resistance were in school but I read that they were not very effective, although they were useful for reasons you listed.
My point in saying what good did it do was that the invasion in 1944 would have happened regardless of how effective the resistance was or wasn't.

Also, I would like to clarify the secret policeman comment.
If I lived in a dictatorship was the question, not what if a dictatorship invaded my country.
If I grew up in a Warsaw Pact nation I would have sought to become a secret policeman because you have the roughly same danger as a factory worker but much better benefits.
Given my non-hypothetical predilection for confrontation and an almost genetic allergy to authority I would be a resistance member if we were invaded.
I would be a mujahadeen if I was an Iraqi or an Afghani.
U have that foolish notion that when it comes to defending my homeland, the ends justify the means.
I know that means I am not as enlightened or mature or evolved or civilized as some people but its' a burden I must carry.

[[R-MOD]Saobh]

Well if every candidate was as honest, people would actually enjoy politics ... and vote.

YouTube Video

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

on the subject of dictatorships.....take a look at this
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20380094/from/ET/

[[R-MOD]Saobh]

Originally Posted by ArmedDrunk&Angry

on the subject of dictatorships.....take a look at this
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20380094/from/ET/

Eh ?

Teaspoon of urine can drug test an entire city
Scientists say sewer water sampling tracks community’s meth, cocaine use

Don't see what this has to do with dictatorship

(btw this method has all ready been used in Italy at least a good year ago, and they found out that cocaine use was much much higher then they expected)

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

it's a step in the direction of more government control which is part of a dictatorship as far as I know.
Like the gadget that reads your lic plate and stores the info in a database, not all threatening by itself but when you start to combine these things ......