Vatican stops support of Amnesty International - Page 4

BetterDeadThanRed · 06-16-2007, 03:49 PM

Biologically speaking, there is no difference between an child about to be born and a child just born. Its just an arbitrary milemarker placed by our culture. The only major milestones in human development are conception, puberty, and maturation (stop of growth, around mid 20s).

At every stage of development, the DNA for the adult human being is there. Birth is not a major event in human development despite what people believe, the baby just became to large to continue developing inside the mother and must leave to continue developing.

Since the only other events following conception are puberty and maturation, I don't think anybody is going to say that we have the right to kill our children up until their teenage years or mid 20s. You may laugh, but abortion is in the same catagory.

My opinion is that the Vatican is still living in the middle ages where it exacted complete power over Europe and its meddling in affairs needs to be stopped. Its views on contraception are outdated and even barbaric and although I don't support abortion, I do believe that it is foolish to impose and outright ban as you can never predict all future circumstances.

~~ArmedDrunk&Angry~~ · 06-16-2007, 03:54 PM

My opinion is that the Vatican is still living in the middle ages where it exacted complete power over Europe and its meddling in affairs needs to be stopped
I would agree that the church needs to modernize and adapt but I am curious about the underlined portion of the quote.
Who would stop them ?
Who defines " meddling" and who determines who, when and how meddling occur ?

~~Lampshade111~~ · 06-16-2007, 04:04 PM

Well in the Middle Ages the Pope could excommunicate you and then have his private army beat and hang your ass if your somewhere in Italy.

BetterDeadThanRed · 06-16-2007, 04:14 PM

Well, the Vatican is constantly threatening to excommunicate American politicians that support abortion although I'm not sure how many times they have carried through with their threats and they have made no secret about their wanting of America to open its borders to the Mexicans which just makes me want to stick my fist through my computer screen.

It is also extremely important to note the majority of catholics in Mexico. You don't see the vatican jumping up and down screaming for us to open the door to North Korea or Iran, do you?

How should they be stopped?
I think they are doing a good enough job of losing support on their own, its just a matter of time. (DUN DUN DUNNNNNNN!)

sekiryu · 06-17-2007, 02:30 AM

Quote:

It is alive.
It is growing.

And yet we eat eggs....

Quote:

If it is not a human child then what is it ?

A parasite equivalent to a larva.

lonelyjew · 06-17-2007, 03:08 AM

Dammit, a fucking abortion thread? Here? How the hell has this not been locked yet? I only mean because the mods usually don't like this kind of stuff.

Anyways, so what? Why the hell shouldn't the Catholic church be able to tell it's followers not to donate to an organization that promotes sin? They are neither forcing anyone to not get an abortion or even forcing anyone to not give to Amnesty; they are only stating the fact that if you want to be a good Catholic you will not donate to anyone or anything that promotes abortion under any circumstances. You don't like it? Don't be a fucking Catholic then but don't bitch about other people's beliefs. Christ, you're acting as if they said don't give any aid to anything.

Notice I didn't give my view on abortion, rather just pointed out how ludicrous it is for you to be so upset about a different view.

~~ArmedDrunk&Angry~~ · 06-17-2007, 03:09 AM

But it is not a larvae, it is a human being and we require that humane beings be treated a certain way.
The most telling part of this is that it is not a law that was passed by representatives of the people.
It was 12 people who decided that killing an unborn child is acceptable with no due process.

I don't think the Catholic church is going anywhere soon.
I do agree with you on the immigration issue and I am not hopeful that we will have any agreement on a workable plan.

Not to be too anti-religious but a group that deems safe sex to be a sin is not a group I would support.

Personally I think any time the church, any religious group for that matter steps into the political ring and makes pronouncements they should lose their tax exempt status for the month.
I think since most churches are like most large organizations in that their primary goal is survival and growth of the organization this would limit the amount of self serving BS we hear from cleric.

lonelyjew · 06-17-2007, 03:12 AM

Oh yeah, and I forgot to add, Amnesty International lost my support as soon as I found out they ranked the US and China the same on the human rights scale since we both have the death penalty. Idiots...

~~ArmedDrunk&Angry~~ · 06-17-2007, 03:12 AM

The mods seem to be on vacation as we have several contentious thread going and all have remained polite and more or less on topic with no threats or locks.
I think the big issue is not whether people are upset about abortion but that in many areas the RCC and Amnesty work for the same goals and limiting the resources of Amnesty will hurt it on other projects besides abortion.

[R-MOD]dunehunter · 06-17-2007, 06:08 AM

Lonelyjew, I can understand people disliking Amnesty Internation, but what the hell could be wrong with Unicef?

06-16-2007, 03:49 PM	#31
BetterDeadThanRed German Forces Mod Lead Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: USA Posts: 1,555	Biologically speaking, there is no difference between an child about to be born and a child just born. Its just an arbitrary milemarker placed by our culture. The only major milestones in human development are conception, puberty, and maturation (stop of growth, around mid 20s). At every stage of development, the DNA for the adult human being is there. Birth is not a major event in human development despite what people believe, the baby just became to large to continue developing inside the mother and must leave to continue developing. Since the only other events following conception are puberty and maturation, I don't think anybody is going to say that we have the right to kill our children up until their teenage years or mid 20s. You may laugh, but abortion is in the same catagory. My opinion is that the Vatican is still living in the middle ages where it exacted complete power over Europe and its meddling in affairs needs to be stopped. Its views on contraception are outdated and even barbaric and although I don't support abortion, I do believe that it is foolish to impose and outright ban as you can never predict all future circumstances.
	German Forces Mod Status

06-16-2007, 04:14 PM	#34
BetterDeadThanRed German Forces Mod Lead Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: USA Posts: 1,555	Well, the Vatican is constantly threatening to excommunicate American politicians that support abortion although I'm not sure how many times they have carried through with their threats and they have made no secret about their wanting of America to open its borders to the Mexicans which just makes me want to stick my fist through my computer screen. It is also extremely important to note the majority of catholics in Mexico. You don't see the vatican jumping up and down screaming for us to open the door to North Korea or Iran, do you? How should they be stopped? I think they are doing a good enough job of losing support on their own, its just a matter of time. (DUN DUN DUNNNNNNN!)
	German Forces Mod Status

06-17-2007, 03:08 AM	#36
lonelyjew Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 2,764	Dammit, a fucking abortion thread? Here? How the hell has this not been locked yet? I only mean because the mods usually don't like this kind of stuff. Anyways, so what? Why the hell shouldn't the Catholic church be able to tell it's followers not to donate to an organization that promotes sin? They are neither forcing anyone to not get an abortion or even forcing anyone to not give to Amnesty; they are only stating the fact that if you want to be a good Catholic you will not donate to anyone or anything that promotes abortion under any circumstances. You don't like it? Don't be a fucking Catholic then but don't bitch about other people's beliefs. Christ, you're acting as if they said don't give any aid to anything. Notice I didn't give my view on abortion, rather just pointed out how ludicrous it is for you to be so upset about a different view.
lonelyjew Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 2,764	Thanks luizinhuu for the find People are hopelessly ignorant of their own ignorance. -Me
	Last edited by lonelyjew; 06-17-2007 at 03:13 AM..

06-17-2007, 03:12 AM	#38
lonelyjew Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 2,764	Oh yeah, and I forgot to add, Amnesty International lost my support as soon as I found out they ranked the US and China the same on the human rights scale since we both have the death penalty. Idiots...
lonelyjew Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 2,764	Thanks luizinhuu for the find People are hopelessly ignorant of their own ignorance. -Me

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06-16-2007, 03:54 PM	#32
~~ArmedDrunk&Angry~~ Banned Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Long Island Posts: 6,969	My opinion is that the Vatican is still living in the middle ages where it exacted complete power over Europe and its meddling in affairs needs to be stopped I would agree that the church needs to modernize and adapt but I am curious about the underlined portion of the quote. Who would stop them ? Who defines " meddling" and who determines who, when and how meddling occur ?

06-16-2007, 04:04 PM	#33
~~Lampshade111~~ Banned Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: USA Posts: 396	Well in the Middle Ages the Pope could excommunicate you and then have his private army beat and hang your ass if your somewhere in Italy.

06-17-2007, 03:09 AM	#37
~~ArmedDrunk&Angry~~ Banned Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Long Island Posts: 6,969	But it is not a larvae, it is a human being and we require that humane beings be treated a certain way. The most telling part of this is that it is not a law that was passed by representatives of the people. It was 12 people who decided that killing an unborn child is acceptable with no due process. I don't think the Catholic church is going anywhere soon. I do agree with you on the immigration issue and I am not hopeful that we will have any agreement on a workable plan. Not to be too anti-religious but a group that deems safe sex to be a sin is not a group I would support. Personally I think any time the church, any religious group for that matter steps into the political ring and makes pronouncements they should lose their tax exempt status for the month. I think since most churches are like most large organizations in that their primary goal is survival and growth of the organization this would limit the amount of self serving BS we hear from cleric.

06-17-2007, 06:08 AM	#40
[R-MOD]dunehunter Forum Moderator Join Date: Dec 2006 Belgium Location: Belgium Posts: 5,574	Lonelyjew, I can understand people disliking Amnesty Internation, but what the hell could be wrong with Unicef?

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