Pen & Teller: Bullshit!: Gun control

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

Well if you can change tack so can I.
There was a program on gun makers outside of LA and how many guns were missing and when you see the map you realize LA is ringed with cheap bun makers that clearly feed the illegal market through straw buyers.
The state of Virginia has made it illegal for the state of New York to send investigators to gun shops to make straw purchases because it was embarrassing them.
I forget the numbers exactly but it's something like 60% of weapons seized in crimes in NY come from like 5% of shops in Virginia.
There is definitely ways to limit the amount of guns that end up in criminal hands but our individual states still have some rights left and gun ownership laws are different in every state.
But it won't be long before that is changed because I think we are in for some unpleasant surprises in the next few years that will dramatically increase the federal government's power.

[Jackoboy]

Gyberg, how are you going to decrease the numbers of guns coming over our boarders, and that are sold on the black market?

[[R-DEV]IronTaxi]

If i can contrast with japan...i think one of the big diffrences here is that there are no domestic gun manufacturers (well i think there are a few but they dont actually sell any products domestically)

the idea of having, let alone firing a gun is foreign to almost everyone in the country...

i do think that there has been a culture built up around guns in the US (no doubt by the gun makers)...this culture of freedom and human rights..the right to defend oneself etc..i think that where the change needs to come..right now guns are still "cool" to alot of americans.. as much a status symbol as a protection device...in japan/canada, even though its possible to license and own a gun..people really have no interest..

(illegal guns are also very rare in japan, most gun crimes in japan are stil carried out by six shooters)


gun culture has got to go...its a lose/lose situation...i wonder if richard gere would be interested??

[[R-MOD]Wasteland]

Originally Posted by SiN|ScarFace

They are manufactured in a plant or in a cave (pakistan), shipped out by the crate to legal buyers such as stores, armies, ect. From there they get used, sold, stolen and then resold on the black market. There will always be the demand for the manufacture of arms, so they will always be created and sold. If they get stolen or lost in transit (stolen to be resold) thats just supply and demand. Many people, govts, groups are not allowed to buy from the source so they get them by other means. Man is the root of the problem, and until mankind changes there will always be guns, illegal or legal.

The majority of illegal firearms start out their lives as guns legally owned by private citizens.

I'm not making a judgment on gun control, I'm just saying that the logic above doesn't hold.

I don't think this is an issue that is nearly as simple as anybody with an opinion on it would like others to believe, and I certainly don't think the issue is simple enough for a fat man and a skinny silent guy to explain to me.

[Gyberg]

Originally Posted by Jackoboy

notice you guys have a higher gun crime rate with stricter gun laws? and Sweden, with a gun policy REQUIRING the majority males to have a semi automatic rifle has less gun crime?

Get you facts straight, I live in Sweden, Im born in Sweden and there is no such law. Seriously where did you get that from? Do some background check! And yeah, I want the source for that information since it almost made me fall of the chair im sitting on due to laughing!

Maybe you confused it with us having mandatory military service?

I dont have the numbers for how many weapons that are smuggled into the US and how many of those weapons that are used in crimes, if you could supply me with reliable numbers from reliable sources I could try to give you an alternative, or maybe I will just say: Screw it, you guys are f*cked just give everyone Mk19 AGL and have a grand battle royal!

[solodude23]

Originally Posted by Saobh

A very simplistic (and hum a bit biased, over emphasising the gun control proponent as being a pussy) and dumbed out version of more complex issue.

My point is not that guns are great for everyone to have..its that at this point in time its not only too late, but ineffective to have gun laws, in which gun laws only endanger us more.

Oh btw, how do criminals get guns in the first place ?

Around 90% illegally. If there are more gun laws restriction the legal use of guns, that 90 will (obviously) got to 100%.

Without gun laws, everyone has a gun. With gun laws, only criminals have guns. 'Nuff said.

[Jackoboy]

Originally Posted by Gyberg

Screw it, you guys are f*cked just give everyone Mk19 AGL and have a grand battle royal!

ok, cause you know that if you give anyone a gun, they're gonna go whacko automatically and kill everyone they see?



also, why do the countries across the pond care about our right to carry firearms? its not your problem, dont try to change us.

[Gyberg]

You see.... Jackoboy Im having a hard time taking you seriously after that Sweden and semi automatic weapon remark.

This thread was about gun control, if it's good or bad, to discuss that it is kind of easy to compare Europe and the US. And with that comes discussing pro's and cons.

[solodude23]

Originally Posted by Gyberg

And yeah, the main problem probably is that there are alot of illegal weapons around which in your opinion means that you cant just stop selling guns. I'm not saying you should stop selling guns, just make it a bit harder to acquire them and gradually decrease the amount of weapons in circuit.

You just went backwards. You can't make it harder to "acquire" illegal weapons with gun laws.

[Gyberg]

Maybe it didn't go through, alot of the illegal have once been legal, so if it is harder to aquire legal guns there are going to be less illegal guns, but this is something that takes time, it doesn't change overnight. I think AD&A got my point.