Pen & Teller: Bullshit!: Gun control

[D_LaMz]

yea, gun control works. Ban those EVIL guns.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR9RN_iSKtg

[General_J0k3r]

Originally Posted by Gyberg

You miss the next step.. where does the illegal guns from in the first place? Do they grow on trees?

hehe. exactly

[Silens.Intro]

Originally Posted by Gyberg

You miss the next step.. where does the illegal guns from in the first place? Do they grow on trees?

Define an illegal gun for me please in the way that you mean it in that comment you made.
A gun doesn't become automatically illegal when produced, it depends on the area the gun is in (meaning country/state/province etc..) because those areas regulate legal and illegal things by law. I don't get what your trying to say by that comment, are you proposing to shut down firearm manufacturing? If that's what your getting at then I'm going to have a nice at that.

I love how people think criminals get firearms legally so to eliminate the crime caused by firearms would be to logically ban the law abiding citizens to carry/own a firearm..
Like sekiryu (and the show) pointed out, criminals get firearms ILLEGALLY. I live in the Chicago area after all, I know first hand how criminals get an illegal firearm ; if I wanted to I could talk to a few people and get a full auto Tec-9 with a silencer for $400 and have it at my house tommorow. I'm not trying to boast about that, I'm simply stating that I know how this works first hand.

I support concealed carry and firearm possession for the personal reason of reactive immediate personal defense.. To put it simply, a gun reacts to the developing/escalating situation faster then the police. Timing is crucial to surviving an attack of any kind, but I guess alot of people will figure this out first hand when they get assaulted/mugged/burglerized/kidnapped/raped etc..
I would also like to point out shooting firearms is also an extremely fun and enjoyable recreational activity, if you haven't even shot a firearm and are commenting on here, please

[BlackwaterEddie]

Well, look at it this way, England has gun laws, and look, i havent been shot, and i dont know anyone who has, anyway, anyone want to buy a machete off me?, the stain on it is tomato sauce....really

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

now can we draw any conclusion from the fact that the guy from Texas does not support gun control ?
LOL
j/k
nice video but not much else by Stossel on YouTube....... wonder if thats' because he doesn't follow the template ?

Well, look at it this way, England has gun laws, and look, i haven't been shot
You have to admire circular logic.
but you can look at some numbers and see if the logic holds......
http://www.gunsandcrime.org/crvsgraf.html

[Gyberg]

I have had this discussed this before in these forums and it always ends up the same way.

Since anyone (well almost) can aquire a gun legally the demand for guns are at a certain level. Due to this level the gun manufacturers build a certain amont of guns and still make profit.

With strict gun-laws fewer people will be able to aquire a gun legally, the demand for guns will be lower and fewer guns will be produced.

With more guns out on the market the risk of the guns falling into wrong hands due to break in, black market etc etc is higher.

And please dont be naive, legal guns do become illegal, and those do kill people.

I remember that in the last thread about this someone stated that the amont of gun related deaths per capita is many times higher in the US than in Europe, I think that counts for something doesn't it? How would you explain that? And dont give me the BS about USA being founded with weapons and that it's a vital part of your history. Because the majority of the countries in europe have a far more brutal history.

[Jackoboy]

define meaningful change?

[Jackoboy]

Originally Posted by SiN|ScarFace

They are manufactured in a plant or in a cave (pakistan), shipped out by the crate to legal buyers such as stores, armies, ect. From there they get used, sold, stolen and then resold on the black market. There will always be the demand for the manufacture of arms, so they will always be created and sold. If they get stolen or lost in transit (stolen to be resold) thats just supply and demand. Many people, govts, groups are not allowed to buy from the source so they get them by other means. Man is the root of the problem, and until mankind changes there will always be guns, illegal or legal.

exactly, banning guns in essence is just the disarmament of law abiding citizens, and leaving them open to the criminals that will just get the guns by other means!

Originally Posted by BlackwaterEddie

Well, look at it this way, England has gun laws, and look, i havent been shot, and i dont know anyone who has, anyway, anyone want to buy a machete off me?, the stain on it is tomato sauce....really

notice you guys have a higher gun crime rate with stricter gun laws? and Sweden, with a gun policy REQUIRING the majority males to have a semi automatic rifle has less gun crime?

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

Because the majority of the countries in Europe have a far more brutal history
Yes they do. They also have a long history of feudalism and top-down control that we don't.
My personal theory is that over the centuries you exported your violent types to places like America and Australia and the other colonies and thereby bred yourselves into relative passivity but I can't prove that.

With more guns out on the market the risk of the guns falling into wrong hands due to break in, black market etc etc is higher.
This whole concept presupposes that the tens of millions of guns out there now could be removed .........and they can't.
You also don't factor in that in Europe you have much stricter borders than we do. Hell we have open borders so illegal guns will come in along with the illegal immigrants...sorry I meant " undocumented workers ".
The reality is that the criminal element in America has easy access to weapons and limiting the new manufacture of legal weapons as well as ownership would do absolutely nothing to prevent that.
If we colonize the moon I would support no civilian gun ownership but in this country we have millions of sc mbags who don't obey the law and have no compunction about hurting you or killing you to get what they want.
The stats are very clear that in the US legal gun ownership leads to a reduction in crime and all the soft touchy feely notions otherwise simply do not stand up.

[Gyberg]

First, I seriously enjoy debating with you AD&A.

As for the numbers I cant say anything about them since you dont give me any links or sources, but then again neither did I in my last post . All I can say about the graphs you posted, they are more than ten years old and a bit outdated.

And yeah, the main problem probably is that there are alot of illegal weapons around which in your opinion means that you cant just stop selling guns.
Im not saying you should stop selling guns, just make it a bit harder to aquire them and gradually decrease the amount of weapons in circuit.