Jihad against "western civilization"???

[General_J0k3r]

that's not really terrorism. that's idiots going nuts. like the bombing attempt we had in germany. the problem is religion and psychological problems...

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

I B T L
According to OBL and his mentors they are at war with America because we are the Great Satan.
We embrace and export values that they deem to be a direct attack on Islam.
Muslims are Muslims first then everything else where Americans don't tend to define themselves that way and from what I read neither do the Europeans.
They bombed us because we behaved for 10 years as if we were afraid to react.
They bombed us first because if we fall the rest of western civilization goes with us.
Scarface is right in that many issues are boiled down to bare essentials and presented as black and white but he is also wrong in thinking that this is all vast conspiracy to keep the rich rich and make the poor poorer.
Western civilization can fall and the world would not be a better place for being divided between Chinese communists and Sharia loving radicals.
There are many convoluted issues not the least of which is women's rights which the radicals will NEVER accept and the traditionalists fear.
In the end I think it's a nuclear winter that will kill off large numbers of people and leave the rest to fight over the scraps.

[SocketMan]

I agree they got to change the description ASAP, change it to something like this: "Everything you need to regain your freedom and avenge the death of your family, from the hands of US and British mercenaries"and so on ...

[SiN|ScarFace]

J.I.H.A.D. Jews Infidels Haters Americans Democracy.

I made that up.

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

LMAO
Kewl

[DrMcCleod]

Originally Posted by Kruder

"all you need for a jihad war against Western civilization"

this writes in the description of an insurgent kit.

For example did any bomb explode in germany,france,sweden ,switzerland greece italy netherlands etc. etc. australia, canada ,do the jihadists wage war against or threaten them ??Arent these countries part of western civ. you speak of?


P.S:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda
go read what they say about their enemies in their fatwas,the term they use is not "western civilization",it is "US and its allies" that they define as their enemy.

Kruder, I understand that you are posting from Turkey. Your nation is in the frontline against militant Islam, as I am sure you are aware. It was only a couple of weeks ago that hundreds of thousands of your fellow citizens demonstrated on the streets in support of Ataturk's secular legacy, against the forces that would drag you back into a primitive and cruel past.
Islamic terrorists have made threats againt all the nations you mention above, and yours too.

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

From what I've read, it's the radicals that have subverted Attaturk's model and will soon have control over Turkey.
Shame...

[DrMcCleod]

Originally Posted by ArmedDrunk&Angry

From what I've read, it's the radicals that have subverted Attaturk's model and will soon have control over Turkey.
Shame...

Not quite as simple as that. There is a militant Islamic strain in Turkey, particularly in the Eastern part of the country. On the other hand, most of Turkey is very modern and the military are sworn to uphold secular values, not hesitating to kick out governments that have attempted to Islamicise the country.
It is an interesting example of the steps that a democratic state needs to take to ensure that Islamic militancy does not take hold. A warning for the future perhaps.

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

What I read was that the radicals were using the democratic process to gain power through legitimate means.
I find it ironic that the war is not against western civilization but against modern, ultra liberal civilization.
The irony is that it is traditional conservatives fighting against extreme conservatives of another faith while the faithless hasten their own demise by hampering the war effort at every turn.
The mores and morals that we take for granted have only existed for less than 100 years and while we feel they are correct and humane, large segments of the world's population do not agree with us.

That large segment does not support terrorism in the name of their religion but they certainly will not support atheistic hedonism against their own traditions.

In the short term the war against radical Islam can be won but in the long run we don't have much chance.

They breed strong pious fighters in the millions while we breed soft, self indulgent pacifists in the millions with only a handful of strong pious fighters.

The mathematics are inescapable.

[DrMcCleod]

Originally Posted by ArmedDrunk&Angry

That large segment does not support terrorism in the name of their religion but they certainly will not support atheistic hedonism against their own traditions.

In the short term the war against radical Islam can be won but in the long run we don't have much chance.

They breed strong pious fighters in the millions while we breed soft, self indulgent pacifists in the millions with only a handful of strong pious fighters.

The mathematics are inescapable.

However, the modern liberal states build weapons that allow them to wipe out the pious in less than a day.
With a will, we could simply kill every human, animal and plant in the Middle East in less than 24 hours. The reason that we do not, is simply because it is not yet necessary.


BTW: The same arguments about the decadent democratic states was used by every tyrant and half-wit of the 20th century. The Kaiser, Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao. Yet their works are crumbling to dust, as we reach for the stars.