American Muslims think suicide bombings OK.

[Ghostrider]

Originally Posted by Saobh

"American Muslims think suicide bombings OK." but to the question:
Can suicide bombing of civilian targets to defend Islam be justified
(all US Muslims)
- 8% often/sometimes
- 5% rarely
- 78% No

[page 53 of the report]

And then you criticize the media for being biased in their reporting ...

Yes it is worrisome, but don't inflate it.
Oh and thanks again for pointing to a very 'unbiased' site rather then the reports official site.

With a (maybe conservative?) estimate of 5 million muslims in US you would think that 8%, which account to at least 400,000 people (excluding the other 5% that said 'rarely' meaning "Yes" in I dont know what circumstance) is not a number to take into account.

For me, having ~400,000 people in my country thinking that it's ok to commit suicide bombings often/sometimes is rather disturbing, and the less predictable 5% (250,000) that (by saying 'rarely' they do agree with it) also makes me go around the same thought. 9% of them (450,000) declined to answer...so that leaves another open gap..

Regarding the 78% majority (3,900,000) that says 'No', I wouldn't know what to think about them because of these 2 things.

Originally Posted by Taqiyya

"Concealing or disguising one's beliefs, convictions, ideas, feelings, opinions, and/or strategies at a time of imminent danger, whether now or later in time, to save oneself from physical and/or mental injury."

A synonym of Taquiyya is Dissimulation.

Originally Posted by Dissimulation

is a form of deception in which one conceals the truth. It differs from simulation, in which one exhibits false information. Dissimulation commonly takes the form of concealing one's ability in order to gain the element of surprise over an opponent.

If you look the table in page 26, you see how many of them (divided by age groups) consider religion to be very important, which are 26 (18-29yrs), 24(30-39), 23(40-54) & 19%(55+)...you could also argue that the more important they consider their religion to be, the more likely they are to "do" something related to attacks, in contrast of just standing idle and 'nodding' to what the others do.


Regarding the site link, both have the report linked, so I think the comment is rather irrelevant, since the same information is available for viewing. On the other hand, you always have 'something to say' about them, no matter what place the 'source' is from...so why take the comment seriously..

I also came across this some time ago. I wonder what you think about it..?


-Ghost

[[R-MOD]Saobh]

Originally Posted by [R-DEV]Ghostrider

With a (maybe conservative?) estimate of 5 million muslims in US you would think that 8%, which account to at least 400,000 people (excluding the other 5% that said 'rarely' meaning "Yes" in I dont know what circumstance) is not a number to take into account.

For me, having ~400,000 people in my country thinking that it's ok to commit suicide bombings often/sometimes is rather disturbing, and the less predictable 5% (250,000) that (by saying 'rarely' they do agree with it) also makes me go around the same thought.

Still makes your title misleading as 78% of people saying No to suicide bombings do not equate as their whole "think suicide bombings OK"

Rather the contrary.

Wonder ho people of other religions would answer that same question (towards protecting their faith thru suicide)

Regarding the 78% majority (3,900,000) that says 'No', I wouldn't know what to think about them because of these 2 things.



A synonym of Taquiyya is Dissimulation.


Regarding the site link, both have the report linked, so I think the comment is rather irrelevant, since the same information is available for viewing. On the other hand, you always have 'something to say' about them, no matter what place the 'source' is from...so why take the comment seriously..

Well when you use blogs with an agenda as "news source" while at the same time be critical against the "media bias" ... the term "double standard" comes to mind

I also came across this some time ago. I wonder what you think about it..?
-Ghost

Here goes the Fifth column theory (conspiracy ?)
So pretty much if you are Muslim you are pretty much a would be terrorist ... like any Christian is a crusader waiting to be unleashed.

and an other way of understanding it: (wiki yes I know you consider wiki as a bunch of liars, but as people can make corrections to it, feel free to do so )

Taqiyyah, like any other Islamic tenet, has guidelines and limits. According to many Shia, Taqiyyah can only be legally used by a Muslim verbally when he or she is being wrongly persecuted. The situation may be when no matter whichever course of action an individual chooses he has to commit an evil. In that case, he should select the lesser evil.

When one is guilty and is trying to conceal his or her guilt, in Islam, he is not said to be using taqiyyah, he or she is considered a liar and Taqiyyah isn't valid in this case.

In effect, the practice of al-taqiyyah is a resolution to a given aporia or paradox. Namely, the devotee is forced to choose between on the one hand, the threat or harm of a sacred body (their own, or another’s); and on the other a temporary disavowal of faith, or the sacred word. In either case, a devotee is harmed. Therefore, it is thought that the lesser of two evils is to conceal, while not abandoning one’s faith (the word).

Some Sunnis assert that Taqiyya is an act of hypocrisy that serves to conceal the truth. According to them, Taqiyya constitutes a lack of faith and trust in God because the person who conceals his beliefs to spare himself from danger is fearful of humans, when he should be fearful of God only.

Kierkegaard suggests there is no need for such dissimulation when the true believer of faith will act as a knight of faith. If Kierkegaard is right, a faithful citizen will always act in total reverence for the law insofar as the word always prevails no matter how absurd experience gets.

So what you read as a way to infiltrate and kill us infidels, is really the vestige of a rule to protect Muslims from unjust persecutions in their times.

But yes people can and probably do use it as an excuse for their ill biding .. like others use the name of Christ to invade countries.

In the end people will always find the excuses for their own thirst for power, be it religion, science, skin color etc

[Ghostrider]

Originally Posted by Saobh

Still makes your title misleading as 78% of people saying No to suicide bombings do not equate as their whole "think suicide bombings OK"

Rather the contrary.

Wonder ho people of other religions would answer that same question (towards protecting their faith thru suicide)

The "think suicide bombings OK" was a typo. The '?' mark did not register when I was typing it.

Originally Posted by Saobh

Well when you use blogs with an agenda as "news source" while at the same time be critical against the "media bias" ... the term "double standard" comes to mind

Yeah, I know I should be using the New York Times and more mainstream 'sources' like you do. They're completely objective and neutral.

Originally Posted by Saobh

Here goes the Fifth column theory (conspiracy ?)
So pretty much if you are Muslim you are pretty much a would be terrorist ... like any Christian is a crusader waiting to be unleashed.

I wonder the time difference between the two. The Crusades are more than 1500yrs (1095 - 1291) old and were wrong because the Bible does not advocate for those actions.

Regarding jihads, they started to become an issue shortly after 622...and continue to present day...so yeah...Christians are an inminent threat..

Originally Posted by Saobh

and an other way of understanding it: (wiki yes I know you consider wiki as a bunch of liars, but as people can make corrections to it, feel free to do so )

I dont consider wiki as a bunch of liars. In fact, the Taqiyya/Dissimulaiton info I posted is from there. The only thing I've said about wikis is that people can edit them at will. I've encountered locked wikis because of 'vandalism'...which really sucks. Hope that makes you stop 'thinking for me'

Originally Posted by Saobh

So what you read as a way to infiltrate and kill us infidels, is really the vestige of a rule to protect Muslims from unjust persecutions in their times.

Well, yeah, in theory, but in practice, they're the ones that travel around the globe declaring jihad on others.

Don't remember the danish cartoons? If people criticed and bashed Islam the same way they do to Christianity, things would really be different...but yeah, its a lot safer to bash religions that will not declare jihad on you nor blow up in your backyard.

Originally Posted by Saobh

But yes people can and probably do use it as an excuse for their ill biding .. like others use the name of Christ to invade countries.

Hmm...you're pretty far from present day if you're still thinking about the crusades lol

Originally Posted by Saobh

In the end people will always find the excuses for their own thirst for power, be it religion, science, skin color etc

Yeah, and I believe we can both agree, at least on this, that its completely wrong.. :/


-Ghost

[insurgent0011]

Originally Posted by [R-DEV]Ghostrider

A synonym of Taquiyya is Dissimulation.


If you look the table in page 26, you see how many of them (divided by age groups) consider religion to be very important, which are 26 (18-29yrs), 24(30-39), 23(40-54) & 19%(55+)...you could also argue that the more important they consider their religion to be, the more likely they are to "do" something related to attacks, in contrast of just standing idle and 'nodding' to what the others do.


Regarding the site link, both have the report linked, so I think the comment is rather irrelevant, since the same information is available for viewing. On the other hand, you always have 'something to say' about them, no matter what place the 'source' is from...so why take the comment seriously..

I also came across this some time ago. I wonder what you think about it..?


-Ghost

http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter6b/1.html - Muslims source is better to read first. Its an Article about/explaining Taqyiha, you have been misinformed mate.

I would also like to say that I condone Al Qadea and their actions to be against Islam. As a Shiite Muslim they would consider me a infidel.

Quran says :

[5.69] Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabians and the Christians whoever believes in Allah and the last day and does good-- they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve.

005.032
On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.

[Vaiski]

Wrt the article and poll results…Its all about what the publisher wants to tell you.
The way that article is written kind of takes all its credibility. Its not really trying to be objective.
There are things the publisher didn’t want to mention.

Someone else could write a whole different (biased or objective) article from the same poll report and make completely opposite conclusions.
For example if someone wanted to shock muslims he could pick these

51% of all U.S. muslims are worried that women wearing the Hijab will be treated poorly
4% of American muslims reported that they have been physically attacked in past year.

But those would be then again just half the truth.

Polls are the easiest way to mislead people anyway. You see what you want to/are told to see. Don’t forget that the media is making money out of these.
IMO people should read the poll reports themself. Don’t let some other instance choose your opinion. It would be interesting to see how Christians answer to similar poll. How would the media report the results?

Originally Posted by [R-DEV]Ghostrider

I also came across this some time ago. I wonder what you think about it..?

TBH to me its as credible as any of the ‘9/11 conspiracy’ videos. Not going to form an opinion based on that.

[Cravixon]

Originally Posted by General_J0k3r

1,050 being asked? lol. anyone ever had statistics? that's ridiculous and no way representative...

After studying statistical modeling based on sociological studies as this one is, that is indeed, a representative sample size.

[puglous]

I'll probably be going to bed after this post, but I thought I might as well give my two cents. While some of those statistics are shocking, I think you might be getting a bit jumpy about the whole "suicide bombing/civillians" thing. The question was "Can suicide bombing of civilian targets to defend Islam be justified?", meaning the question assumes its already established fact that the bombing would defend their religion. That doesn't necessarily mean they view things like 9/11 as justified (because, with good reason, they might not see it as any sort of way of defending Islam)

The issue with 9/11, which I guess is fair to call a suicide bombing, wasn't so much "How the **** could they be so soulless to kill 3,000 civillians to defend their religion!?" but rather "How the **** does killing 3,000 civillians defend their religion!?"

Anyway, I'm off to bed...

[[R-COM]Outlawz]

Originally Posted by General_J0k3r

i myself for example don't think all americans are stupid coz theres a vid where people state that australia is iran on a map and dont even find north america...

, link?

[General_J0k3r]

Originally Posted by Cravixon

After studying statistical modeling based on sociological studies as this one is, that is indeed, a representative sample size.

yeah. but what is regularly called representative is still uncertain in its results. check the literature and the 5% significance confidence interval.

link to the stupid americans vid (no offense to americans, i think i have to state that clearly ): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oTRmOBSLSU

[::Major_Baker::]

wow, that video makes me quite embarrassed. No wonder we are where we are now--because we align with people who know as little as or less than we do.

For the record, those Americans among us that are more educated and informed prove that with our votes.