A year of Free Speech

[lonelyjew]

Originally Posted by Guerra norte

Nice, I've always hated the americansation of europe which has been raising at an alarming rate over the last 60 years.
If I must choose between the two I'll choose Islam, why? Because I am sick to my stomach of all the filth streaming through all the media the channels which has it's origin from the US.

So you'de prefer burqas loss of freedom to tits and liberty?

Now to the main topic; Armed, I never knew you were such an adamant conservative, well I guess that's because I never see politics here, but anyways, Islam isn't so much of a threat here in the US. You have to remember that though there are a lot of liberal pussies who would blindly follow Sharia law just for the sake of not offending others but there are just as many crazy conservatives who would start a revolution(I'm not a con exactly but I'd join em) before Sharia law got it's grips on our laws.

Now, with that said, I hate to break your fantasy but there are many Islamic cultures, many of which don't want Sharia law and many more who are secular. Now I understand this view, hell I held it myself, because this is what any media in the US would have you believe. They plaster the title "Islamic" on every terrorist like it's the only reason they commit their acts of terror, and though a warped version of Islam plays a huge role in this the politics behind the terrorism supercede the religious aspects of the terrorism.

In any case though, an elected official swearing on something meaningful to him(the Quran) over something meaningless(the Christian bible) is hardly opening a floodgate. You speak out against Islamic intolerance but you are hardly tolerant of them yourself. I hate to call you a hypocrite but you are in this case. Islam is a scary thing to us westerners, and how it's warping Europe only solidifies our fear but that doesn't meen that we should wage an all out cultural war against all Islam.

Now about Israel, I hold little pitty for it's neighbors(except maybe Palestine) when they get their clocks cleaned by Israel. Though Israel goes into excess with the brutality of it's attacks I hardly blaim them for said brutality(still not saying it's a good thing). Think of it this way, lets compare Israel to a dog. Since it's birth it has been beaten badly and has had to fight for it's survival. Is it any surprise that this puppy would grow up into a very meen rottweiler? Is it any surprise that when it's former abusers poke this very meen dog with a qussam rocket they get their throats ripped out? Now perhaps ripping the throat of an enemy out over something as small as a poke is not necessary but the poke is still what provoked the attack. Israel never attacks on a whim, it's always in response to something whether it's a olympic athletes being murdered bombs/rockets against civilians. The goals of the region must also be looked at, Israel: to be left alone All it's neighbors: Israel to be destroyed, it makes it a bit hard to be nice to ones neighbors when you just want to be left alone and they want to kill you. Now once again, I don't condone many of the actions Israel takes but I understand them and I understand that there is always cause to them.

Lastly, to Alsbach, I'm glad to finally have someone of the Islamic faith on this forum. Welcome to the forum.

[Alsbach]

Blair comments: is that a specific speech I might look up or do you mean things he said at different occasions. If the former, when and where please, so I can look it up.
If you hate dolphins you're not a racist, you're a "species'ist", or something like that
cleric...murder...overthrow: well, you're right. did I say something that might indicate I disagree with that?
measures: I guess there are already measures against agitation
Ellison...elected: Good
press conference: well, they didn't shout "kill the infidels". I don't think this is a foreshadow of Sharia law in the USA.
Israel: no further comment in this thread
AlQuaeda: Hello? Shiite state giving a nuclear warhead to Sunni terrorists? Think again.
Suras...misused...minorities...hard time: Yes, they may have been misused or twisted. But thats the work of humans. I posted them to show that these things are not only not forbidden, but they are ordained (decreed, ordered, I don't seem to find the right word).
violent extremists: well, where else should they come from? from regular, non-violent christians, hindus, buddhists? OF COURSE, muslim extremists come from a muslim community. And OF COURSE, they shouldn't.
Muslims...public protest: hm, I would like to post some Google Video links, but I'm using dial-up right now. Toooooo slooooooow.
muslim expansion: But if the timeline were shorter, you would be afraid?
Change: yeah, and I don't think that US muslims want Sharia. They probably would want to ban alcohol or pornography or prostitution (the two latter are the same in my opinion) but how do they differ in that from various other groups?

[Guerra norte]

So you'de prefer burqas loss of freedom to tits and liberty?

I'm not going get in to this discussion since it would require to much of my energy(haven't eaten very much latley due ever damn store being closed), but I will say this, the western world is falling in to an ugly pit of liberalism which will allow any form fredom, no restrictions at all, this is not healthy no matter how you twist and turn it.

Women are turning in to whores, more and more men become gay, childmolestors, rapist, murderes and so on hardly get punished for their crimes, alcohol consumption is an common and accepted activity leading to violence, broken familys, the list goes on and on.

I'm not saying I want to live in Afganistan or anything, but I feel we need to slow down and start putting restrictions on what is commonly accepted in society. So, if Islam was my option as opposed to western values and norms, I would choose Islam.

[Ferocious_Imbecile]

Originally Posted by ArmedDrunk&Angry

post lag!!!
Sorry, I don't buy the neocon putsch theory.
But then again, if it was a succesful conspiracy I would have no reason to suspect it.
But it sounds like the cherrypicked facts that are often used to support "moonbat" ideas.
This cabal of trotskites ? what is their ultimate goal ?
It sounds as if they are destroying America and what do they get out of that ?
What advantage is gained by sending industry to developing nations or inviting intolerant religions into the Disneyland that is America ?
quo buono ? ( sp ) who benefits from all of this ?

And what passed for patriotism in the past ? 54'40" or fight ?

It should be pretty obvious who's profiting; if you can make a shirt for 20 cents in China using slave labour, then sell it in the United States at Boysco for $200, you're making a hell of a lot of money. And the elite that own that factory in China with enslaved Christians making the shirt for free and the elite that own Boysco don't have to worry about living in an impovershed US city like Detroit or Philadelphia, once great towns; they live in luxury security compounds that never or rarely even appear in the press or movies. Bal Harbour Fla, Newport News, Bora Bora, islands in the Carribean...they have their private security guards that are the elite of the mercenaries...they own the shipping companies that get protected by the US Navy even though they're flying Liberian flags. There's a pretty cool racket no? The US once had a mighty merchant marine; no more. The US taxpayers now pay to protect the foreign owned ships flying under foreign owned flags. They're being swindled impudently.


If you look at the history of the USA...going right back to the era just between the French Indian Wars and the Revolution you will see that America was never intended to be a manufacturing nation; that would allow it to aspire to independence. It was meant to be a producer of raw materials with slaves producing them. George Washington was enraged to have to buy his suit and coach from England and find that on receipt of them that the suit was too small and the coach fell apart within a month. He swore that America would one day be free to manufacture, free from the Mercantile system. In his day it was illegal to so much as turn iron into nails...

Too bad his descendants have lost their patriotism and fallen back into being complacent slaves to the neo mercantilism of the neocons. All they're good for now is to be cannon fodder for the reborn British Empire, which was only to a very small extent British, when you actually start to investigate the secretive people that own the private corporation known as The Crown, a corporation founded in the 1680's during the so called Glorious Revolution, which was in fact a foreign coup d'etat that put a Dutch usurper on the throne of England.


So when you complain of the direction your country and all of the West is headed in, you sound to me like a noob that's getting spawn raped. You feel the hurt of being constantly slammed to the ground but you don't even know who is slamming you or where the slamming is coming from.

I, at least can see who is doing it and where it's coming from.


And when Canada, the USA and Mexico become one amorphous polygot country, around 2010 or so, and the economic pins are pulled out from under us, and zillions of 3rd world muslims swamp us, It'll be cold comfort for me to say to you; "I told you so".

[Ferocious_Imbecile]

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[Alsbach]

@ferocious: hoh boy, you're really into this, aren't you? no offense meant, when I was younger I was digging into the same sort of thing. then i realised that, even if it's true, there will never be real proof. all conspiracy theories use synthetic reasoning. the conclusion might be valid, but other conclusions, using the same input, might also be possible.

@lonelyjew: thanks for your welcome. I'm sure I'm not the only muslim around here, but maybe the only one to say a word here and there.
so, hum, Islam does not mean burqa.

@guerra norte: well, in a way you're right. although my liberal upbringing wants to cry out (while my religious sentiments applaud). there must be a middle way

@ferocious: after reading your last edit, I must conclude that even AD&D is much more sympathetic. again, no offense meant, that is my personal opinion and irrelevant in any meaningful discussion.

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

Well forgive me for not welcoming you to the forums, and I really enjoy the discussion with someone who knows more about Islam than what came from a book.
I think many things I've said have been misinterpreted.
I am not a neocon or really a conservative but given the tone in the forums I seem far right wing.
I am not an expert on Islam but I don't think all Islamic nations are the same or share the same goals.
To restate, there are some Muslims, who I call extremists, that should be feared and their advance stopped.
As far as the bomb goes... the Sunni's getting blamed for something the Shii did sounds perfectly reasonable to me.
I enjoy many of the activities that Guerra would convert to avoid so if Sharia were really coming in 2010, yeah, I'd be afraid.
There is no flood of anyone, let alone developing nation Muslims coming here.
I would like to see more time spent aclaimating immigrants to our decadent way of life, wherever they may come from.
Immigrants are the source of our greatness because it takes 3-4 generations before they become lazy and sheeplike the way the native born are.
If America is to fall like the Romans it has to be from within and we have a few more decades to go before that becomes a real possibility.
As long as we have the constant flow of immigrants, we have people from all over the world with a self interest in keeping America going.

[lonelyjew]

My tits and liberty joke wasn't quite as obvious as I thought it was but, now that it's been brought up, what is the norm of society and what society are we talking about Guerra norte? Who's to say what is normal, who gets this powerful privilege? You? If western society, as a whole, doesn't want to conform to your norms of morality a choice still has been made by society and apparently that choice is to be liberal. It is unfortunate that some of these choices are, in my mind, poor but then again I am only a small facet. My voice, as well as yours, makes a difference but just as we want our voices to be recognized and respected we must recognize and respect those of others.

I suppose I have conservative views but liberal beliefs. I agree with many of the things you said and I to see our societies groing worse and worse through both moral standards and actions but I also believe that I have little to no right to tell others how to live their own lives. As long as one does not impose on the rights of others I don't feel I have the right to object to their actions on anything more than a moral standpoint.

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

My brother works at a hedge fund and he mentioned in passing once that the Dutch have the most foriegn investment in the US.
So if I'm reading this right it's the dutch that are behind the neocons, or rather behind the english who have been subverted by the trotskyites who then infiltrated the neocons ?
Where do the Chinese fit in again ?

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

I think I'm on the same page as lonelyjew. I enjoy my hedonistic activities while at the same time recognizing that we, as a society are on the way down.

To paraphrase G. Carlin,
" I'm just enjoying watching a once promising race circling the drain"
....or " If you think there is a solution, then you are part of the problem."