project reality header
Go Back   Project Reality Forums > Off-Topic Forums > Off-Topic Discussion
20 Sep 2017, 00:00:00 (PRT)
Register Forum RulesDeveloper Blogs Project Reality Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Off-Topic Discussion For all discussions not related to PR. No Spam.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-25-2012, 12:14 AM   #1
[R-DEV]Ninja2dan
PR:BF2 Developer

[R-DEV]Ninja2dan's Avatar
Default Any Traveller or TW2K fans?

To be honest, I don't expect a lot of people reading these forums to be true "old-school" gamers. I'm talking about the Pen & Paper days, games like D&D and A&A. People who instantly know what I mean by the term "d20". But I have seen a few gamers from the recent generations getting interested in the old games, even if just for novelty value.

But for those of you that are familiar with the older P&P games, new and old alike, I have a few questions.


How many of you that play(ed) such games are aware of a few PC versions that lived during the 90's? Games like MegaTraveller 1/2, Twilight 2000, and other similar games that were "ported over" from the rule books into a real digital format.

I still own my original games, but as much fun as they were when I was a kid, the severely outdated graphics/sound/control/etc has in my opinion made those games nearly unplayable anymore. I need something more modern, but based on the same format.




Yeah, graphics have improved a little bit since then....







Not the best graphics EVAR...but not bad at the time either


Is anyone aware of ANY modern (Win XP+) versions of the Traveller, Twilight 2000, Merc 2000, MegaTraveller, etc P&P games that are available for the PC? I'm looking for a fun, interesting RPG that is based on Sci-Fi or modern/future apocalyptic worlds, with plenty of freedom and exploration combined with a decent story.

I think what made those games amazing was the intense detail to character generation and characteristics, with so many skills and abilities that they really were quite complex. Of course most of the skills used in the P&P version had little or no use in the PC version, the cool thing was you could still use the PC to generate characters for the P&P game.



Anyone that has ever spent the time to roll at least one character for a P&P game knows just how personal and intimate the entire process can be. You are basically creating a virtual life, coming up with their profession, skills, background story, appearance, etc. And all this for a game that sometimes didn't even use physical art or objects, just some dice, a notepad, and graph paper.


I've already played Fallout, Fallen Earth, etc ... it would take me days to list all the recent stuff I've finished off. But not one game has been similar to the old ones. About the next best thing would be the X-Com series, or the semi-sequel UFO series. And yet again, been there done that, played them to death. And yes, I've done all of the JA series and all "off-shoots" of the franchise.

As a note, I am not looking for Fantasy genre. Keep your suggestions and comments about fairies and goblins to yourselves please, those games have no place here.

[R-DEV]Ninja2dan is offline Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 03:41 PM   #2
[R-DEV]Ninja2dan
PR:BF2 Developer

[R-DEV]Ninja2dan's Avatar
Default Re: Any Traveller or TW2K fans?

Sheesh, almost 70 views so far and not a single comment yet?


Is this because few readers have any knowledge or experience of non-fantasy Pen & Paper games from the "Good Old Days"? Or is it because there just haven't been any PC games released since the mid-90's that used the P&P format?

[R-DEV]Ninja2dan is offline Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 04:43 PM   #3
WelshManDan
Supporting Member

WelshManDan's Avatar
Default Re: Any Traveller or TW2K fans?

Its because we wonder "Wtf is Traveller" and then enter, then go "Oh Cool", then leave.

But in seriousness, I never played old RPG games like you mentioned, I never liked RPG games actually at all until a year or two ago.

Although I am a bit of a fan of the old Fallouts (1 mainly), does that count?

Also by me saying a bit of a fan, it means I loaded it up, walked 3 feet, didnt know what I was doing then promtly exited the game.

It did look good though.
WelshManDan is offline Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 05:30 PM   #4
Bob_Marley
Retired PR Developer

Bob_Marley's Avatar
Default Re: Any Traveller or TW2K fans?

The only vaugley modern title along those lines (With better graphics) I can think of would be Fallout Tactics: Brotherhood of Steel. Which isn't great.

Arguably Star Wars: Knights of the Old Repubic 1&2 (depending on your position on the whole sci-fi vs fantasy in space debate).

P&P models in video games, especially in the genre you're asking for, are more or less non-existant in the modern era.

The key to modernising any weapon is covering them in glue and tossing them in a barrel of M1913 rails until they look "Modern" enough.

Many thanks to [R-DEV]Adriaan for the sig!
Bob_Marley is offline Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 05:40 PM   #5
[R-MOD]Saobh
Forum Moderator

[R-MOD]Saobh's Avatar
Default Re: Any Traveller or TW2K fans?

HEhe yeah I know how frustrating it can be as these games look like dinosaurs to most people nowadays.

I played Mega Traveller 2 quite a bit but never got to finish it as my saves got bugged. And man was it a harsh game to play, it was the time where games where actually hard and you had to earn it to get to see the final credits.
I also remember spending quite a bit of time creating my characters as it was ... well to be simple like bringing up a child from 0 to 20 in just a few minutes. There where just so many directions you could lead him to.

So yeah good memories on that one, I always considered it as a sort of follow up of Sundog


On a side note : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BattleTech: The Crescent_Hawk s Revenge
Was a pretty game in the same genre. When you got to pilot your 1st Mech you really felt the awe of it


The only acceptable 'Lone Wolf' you'll be allowed to play : http://www.projectaon.org/en/Main/Home

[R-MOD]Saobh is offline Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 05:41 PM   #6
[R-DEV]Ninja2dan
PR:BF2 Developer

[R-DEV]Ninja2dan's Avatar
Default Re: Any Traveller or TW2K fans?

The style of RPG that I'm referring to are the classic games that people had to play back before the age of high-tech computers and complex board games. For the most part, that's where the "Role-Playing" aspect came into focus, because you basically just had a bunch of guys and girls sitting around a table drinking soda or beer, "playing out" the game with little physical interaction.

These games were created with a complete set of rules, often occupying entire books. Often times there were certain aspects of the game that were already developed as part of the starter set, such as basic locations, characters, buildings, planets, ships, weapons, armor, etc. The rule sets then included details on how people could generate their own content, such as guidelines on creating new weapons or ships. It required a lot of imagination and full understanding of the rules. So if you had a game like Dungeons & Dragons, you couldn't "invent" laser weapons or alien races that weren't part of the story or concept.

These games were generally "ruled" over by a Game Master (GM) who would basically act as the referee, narrating the story and playing the part of the NPC characters/monsters and providing the players with the adventure. It was possible to solo play, but it just wasn't the same.

Before long, board sets were made up for some of these games and included the use of pewter figures or other features to help players keep visual track of things. But in many cases, it used a lot of graph paper and notebooks to keep track of everything.


When computers started to become more common, developers found that you could use the computers to help simulate dice rolls or to store data such as characters and items. In the mid-80's and up until the early- and mid-90's, this style of RPG was quite popular on the PC. Graphics weren't the best back then, but it sure made managing your resources a lot easier.

With more modern computers and software, developers can use the computer itself as the GM. Most aspects of the old games such as characters, locations, etc can all be graphically displayed and interactive worlds could be created. If you've ever seen the early PC games such as Bard's Tale or Wizardry, they got their start from the old P&P format and were ported over into the PC.


One thing about RPG games that I really enjoyed was the ability to get very detailed in the background of your character. Not just writing up some fictional story, but actually developing your character's skills based on that background. Another aspect of those games that I loved was the sheer size of their environments, and the ability to explore so much. While there was usually some kind of story involved, the players generally had much more freedom. Think of modern games such as Skyrim, only on a much larger scale. Imagine being able to go not just anywhere on the planet, but to multiple planets. And still being able to do your own thing, without being stuck on a narrow path.


To be honest, I was not much of the Role-Player type. One reason I did little professional acting was because I usually had the feeling that I was acting like a moron or embarrassing myself. I wasn't "acting naturally", so it felt too weird for me. So I stuck mostly with the behind-the-scenes work, such as production crew or effects department. I like creating a character for the purpose of game freedom and functionality, but I'll never sit there talking on Teamspeak to someone while playing a game, acting as if I'm really an Orc fighting off waves of undead or something like that. No offense to the real RP'ers, but for me it just feels childish.

Overall, I'm just looking for a good PC game that adds the RPG element, allowing me to create an in-depth character that isn't a cookie cutter clone of everyone else. I like the openness of those games, having the option to go out and explore and choose my own adventures. I don't mind a strong story, but I hate being stuck following that one specific story and having little choice of what else I can do.

Those that have played some of the RPG PC games like Megatraveller or Twilight 2000, and even others like X-Com will know what I mean. Hell, I'd even go for an updated dungeon crawler like the old Wizardry series. But I'm leaning more towards the science fiction or "modern" games instead of fantasy.


Other PC RPG games that were similar include the original Fallout, Baldur's Gate, Diablo, Ultima, Wasteland, etc. But as you can see, most of them are/were Fantasy. Megatraveller 1/2 were some of the only sci-fi that I know of, with TW2K being a spin-off of the Traveller rules and being placed in a more modern post-apoc setting.

So I'm looking for something similar to the Megatraveller, TW2K, Fallout, Wasteland, etc games but using more modern software. Something that is Vista compatible, doesn't have horrible graphics or an outdated control interface. I'm guessing there are few out there, but it's possible I might have missed one or two over the years.



@Bob - I did play both SW:KOTOR games, and really enjoyed them. But I was turned off a bit by their very linear pathway, requiring you to basically follow along with the storyline and giving you little room to really explore anything or partake in non-critical tasks. Plus they based their games on pre-designed characters, offering very limited customization. They offered a great story, and used decent graphics and some nice features, but they were still quite distant from the RPG games of the past.

It just seems like the modern games put all of their efforts into plumping up the story and pimping out the graphics, while leaving true character generation in the dust. You no longer feel as though you are creating your own persona, but instead are being forced to "take over" someone else's idea of who your character should be and what they should do.

[R-DEV]Ninja2dan is offline Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 06:10 PM   #7
Bob_Marley
Retired PR Developer

Bob_Marley's Avatar
Default Re: Any Traveller or TW2K fans?

As you mentioned scale, thats one of the key technical limitations the modern system faces - having a really big area with hundreds or even thousands of NPCs you're going to have problems. Like the much mocked guards conversations from Skyrim or those never ending conversations about mudcrabs from Oblivion. People expect high resolution texutres, high quality models and fully voice acted NPCs, all of which send budgets up or scale down. While a game like what you're describing is possible on a technical level it would be prohibitivly expensive to produce.

One of the great advantages of those old games was that they could leave alot of work to the player's imagination (much like the P&P games they were based on) - just watch that vid that Saobh posted - the introduction sequence is a few still pictures with some sound, its relying on you to see the craft taking a pounding from swooping aerospace fighters then scream through the atmosphere and splashdown into the lake. They could reuse the same tilesets over and over again. Dialogue could be delievered entirely by text. Text might even take over from graphics in cases (like the descriptions of whats happening in a fight in Wasteland). Because of the technical limiations of the time they could get away with doing an awful lot of things on the cheap and so deliver huge worlds.

The Mount & Blade series perhaps? A medieval (but not fantasy) setting with vast amounts of freedom in what you can do though largley without story (save for the one you write for yourself, of course!). Lots of setting mods for them to - The Old West, Star Wars, etc...

The key to modernising any weapon is covering them in glue and tossing them in a barrel of M1913 rails until they look "Modern" enough.

Many thanks to [R-DEV]Adriaan for the sig!
Bob_Marley is offline Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 06:26 PM   #8
WelshManDan
Supporting Member

WelshManDan's Avatar
Default Re: Any Traveller or TW2K fans?

I didnt read the whole thread, but I caught the bit about Mount And Blade, and I would heartedly recommend this series to anyone.

Warband adds extra features (plus slightly better graphics) and the mods such as American Revolution, 1257 AD, Litus (just a normal expanded Vanilla game) and hundreds others make it so much better.

The original M&B has the lord of the rings mod going for it, but tbh it feels like a step backward from Warband if you start on WB.
WelshManDan is offline Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 06:51 PM   #9
[R-DEV]Ninja2dan
PR:BF2 Developer

[R-DEV]Ninja2dan's Avatar
Default Re: Any Traveller or TW2K fans?

I had M&B, was actually one of the original testers and purchased the license before it went retail. I haven't tried any of the expansions, but might eventually. It was fun in its own way, but it wasn't really an RPG. It was more of an open hack & slash game. No real storyline or quest guidance, just running around trying to kill everything.


Lately I've been playing a game called Planet Alcatraz. It's not a new game, and the translations were poorly done. But despite all of the bugs and poor design, it's "new" to me and so far hasn't made me punch my monitor yet. I'm sure I'll grow bored with it soon, but it's something to do while I search for something else.

[R-DEV]Ninja2dan is offline Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 07:17 PM   #10
WelshManDan
Supporting Member

WelshManDan's Avatar
Default Re: Any Traveller or TW2K fans?

I agree with you to an extent about the hack n slash nature of it, however in one of the mods for warband, there is a seriously deep diplomacy feature, and in Brytenwalda (based on post-roman Britain) almost every major mod is combined, and it's super hard as well.

I would suggest playing warband and trying to play it like an RPG, where you can create your own kingdom (conquering a castle achieves this I believe?) and then going on a warpath conquering cities and recruiting lords to your faction, once you really get into it (in Brytenwaldas case, this is when your commanding over 200 men I think) then the battles become much larger.

To relate easier it may be worth checking out the 1776 American Revolution mod and fighting off the red coats/natives.

I always found it easier to really get into a game when you have a real passion for the period, so I love 1257 and 1776 more than most other games.

1776 is actually a Brytenwalda sub mod on a new map I believe, it has many of the same features at the least.

Actually I'm gonna go try the wild west mod right now.
WelshManDan is offline Reply With Quote
Reply


Tags
fans, traveller, tw2k
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:36 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin. ©vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
All Content Copyright ©2004 - 2015, Project Reality.