[POLL REOPENED] Poll for MMO players

[[R-DEV]Ninja2dan]

I've been asked to do some R&D for a possible future MMO, one that will most likely feature an "Item Store/Item Mall". Basically, F2P-P2W format like most other MMO's joining the lineup.

One of the first things I want to do is to actually determine if the F2P-P2W (Free to Play, Pay to Win) strategy is the best option or if a F2P/P4P (Free to Play, Pay for Premium) option is a better solution.


The poll has been reopened thanks to Saobh's assistance. Make sure you properly read the descriptions of each choice before voting.


I'll describe the choices below:

1) Subscription Only = You do NOT play Item Mall games, or games that require/insist you have to buy items or pay to unlock features in order to get very far or not be at a serious disadvantage. When you play an MMO, you choose those that are subscription-based only.

2) Free to Play Only = You only play free games that offer no subscription or item mall, everyone is equal.

3) Item Mall, Never Purchase = You play F2P games that offer an Item Mall, but you never buy credits/points or items through the item mall. You enjoy the game enough simply based on its free content, or you just don't have the budget to pay for an online game.

4) Item Mall, Rarely Purchase = You play Item Mall-type games, but only make rare purchases (less than $5 USD per month average). For example, you might have a F2P LOTRO account, but purchased a $5 bank space unlock and a $8 premium costume item in the last six months.

5) Item Mall, Frequent Purchase = You play Item Mall-type games, and make frequent purchases but never more than $10 USD per month average. For example, you might play World of Tanks and sometimes buy premium ammo or you have bought a premium tank, but never spending more than $10/mo average (ie $30 every 3 months, etc).

6) Item Mall, I Gotz Bling = You play Item Mall-type games, and make frequent purchases that average above $15 USD per month. Your monthly purchases would normally be greater than the monthly subscription rate of other games, but you're a pimp and your pockets are bulging with bills. For example, you beat down all who cross your path because you're packing $150 of virtual gear on your character that you bought within the last 6 months.


Notes:

Extended "trial" periods like WoW's "Free to level 20" do NOT count as "Free to Play". Paying a monthly Premium fee such as with STO or LOTRO are considered Subscription-based.

As noted above, for the purposes of this discussion/poll, "Free to Play" means ZERO payment/purchase options. If the game offers any form of premium package, item store/shop/mall, game points/credits/tokens, or ANY ITEM/FEATURE/ACCESS that can be purchased (legally) with real money then that game is no longer considered "Free to Play" and falls in-line with the "Item Mall" categories.


This discussion is not to be directed at any specific games, nor is it intended to discuss/bash/praise other MMO games on the market right now. I'll leave this discussion open to comments/ideas about online gaming payment methods, but any posts that start aiming at a specific GAME will be removed. Remember, specific game discussion is a no-no, unless it is only used as an example towards payment methods within the online gaming industry.

Feel free to also discuss/comment on Item Mall mechanics, such as what type of items you like or dislike and why. What types of items are the shops missing, or what do you feel should be removed.

[[R-DEV]Ninja2dan]

I guess I'll go ahead and list my own personal preferences.

Normally, I prefer to play a game that offers a Free to Play core format, but usually offers some sort of incentive when purchases are made. For example, with LOTRO (when I played), I could spend money to unlock certain features that I needed while still keeping the overall game F2P. This allowed me to play when I wanted, even when I was low on cash that month. I could buy certain instances or unlock extra storage space, while ignoring other instances/raids that I didn't need to buy or features that I didn't care for.

My general opinion is that if you are playing a subscription-based game, which average around $15/mo USD, you end up paying about $150-$180 per year. But if at any time during that year you run low on funds, that's a month you can't play your game. And after that year, you still have to keep on paying to play.

With F2P/IM games, you have the option to purchase certain features such as instances/dungeons/zones, storage, character slots, etc that would normally be available to all in a subscription-based game, but you only pay one time and it's permanent. I can pay $50 USD on store points, and unlock just the stuff I want, and maybe get through a whole year without needing to buy anything else. And after that year, those items are still there available to me and I can still keep on playing any time without having to fork out more money.


Of course, some games are only available as subscription-based, so if the game is good enough I'll go with that option. And there are some games that are F2P/P4P-based, where I can pay a monthly subscription for Premium access during the months I have the funds, but I still have the option to play as F2P when I don't have the funds. Again, LOTRO is an example of the F2P/P4P options.


I mention LOTRO a bit because it's one of the MMO's that I'm familiar with.

[Pvt.LHeureux]

Tribes Ascend, World of Tanks, PlanetSide 2, Path of Exile.

All games I play heavily (except PS2, not out yet), all Free to Play.

[[uBp]Irish]

Used to play a variety of MMOs from Dark Age of Camelot, Anarchy Online, Shadowbane, Planetside, Guild Wars, LOTRO, and EvE.

Having done subscription/get everything up front that in itself has its own benefits. You get everything so everyone is on the same playing field when it comes to items etc.

However, having played the F2P/P2W format you've described it does add some basic fluidity to the game. Depending on how "in depth" you want to get with your toon, you can buy as much or as little which has varying degrees of impact on your overall game. I think this is honestly the best way to go. Problem lies though in development costs and the profit you get back from it. Is it going to be a downloadable? or Purchase In Store/Possible expansions (i.e. GWs?). A lot of the questions stem from that.

I know when I played Dark Age, Shadowbane, and EvE, I accepted the cost of paying per/month because thats just what it was. EvE in itself has a different dynamic where you can buy your monthly subscription with in game money, but then again that aspect is part of the gameplay/in game economy.

F2P/P2W or F2P/Expansions is probably the model I would see MMO's going in the future.

[ToonS]

I voted Item Mall, Frequent Purchases, but this really comes down to the game itself, if it is fun and I'm really enjoying playing it, then I'll cough up to buy stuff. I do with a couple of mobile based games at the moment (not really MMO, but similar idea)

The issue that I have with sub based games is that they run on a predetermined period of days from the time of purchase, or the time that the sub key is applied.
For me it is generally not that I do not have the funds for the month, its more that I don't have the time to play and end up playing a small fraction of the time that I've payed for.

With IM based games though, I think you would need to be careful to not have over powered items for sale that skew the abilities of people that can afford to pay compared to those that cant.

I think that a better method is to have an in-game currency, or currency + resources/energy/mana/whateveryouwanttocallit, so that the only thing that a cashed up player has different is, well, cash.

All of the items/weapons/tools/powers/abilities that can be purchased in the mall can be done so with the in-game currency that can be earned in-game and/or purchased in bulk lots.

[[R-DEV]Ninja2dan]

Originally Posted by Pvt.LHeureux

World of Tanks ...all Free to Play.

Actually, World of Tanks is one of the "Item Mall" games that I mentioned. While the core game is Free to Play, the game overall is a "Pay to Win" type. You have to spend real money to purchase in-game items such as Premium Tanks, Premium Ammo, specially-trained crew, etc, etc. When I stated "Free to Play", I mean just that, zero methods of paying for any service, feature, or item that is part of the game.

Most Facebook and similar "Social" games are also included in the F2P/P2W classification because they offer the incentive of buying uncommon items, powering up your mojo juice, etc for a real-world fee.

Originally Posted by [uBp]Irish

Having done subscription/get everything up front that in itself has its own benefits. You get everything so everyone is on the same playing field when it comes to items etc.

However, having played the F2P/P2W format you've described it does add some basic fluidity to the game. Depending on how "in depth" you want to get with your toon, you can buy as much or as little which has varying degrees of impact on your overall game. I think this is honestly the best way to go.

I think that's one of the reasons several major MMO's lately have moved from a subscription-only based format to a Free to Play/Pay for Premium (F2P/P4P) format. People can continue to pay the normal monthly fee for "premium" access, which is basically the normal subscription cost and includes everything the original subscription offered. Or they can opt for the F2P format, taking with it a hit on features and options. They might have limited bank space, limitations on where they can go, limits on the classes they can choose, etc. But they are then free to use an item mall/store to then purchase those features that they want, without having to pay the full Premium fees.

It's sort of like choosing your cellular plan. You pick the coverage and features you want based on how you plan to use it, without having to pay extra for "everything". You customize your rate based on your own preferences. In my opinion, that attracts more customers.

Problem lies though in development costs and the profit you get back from it. Is it going to be a downloadable? or Purchase In Store/Possible expansions (i.e. GWs?). A lot of the questions stem from that.

That's the main reason I was selected to start my R&D, to determine if the P2W/Item Mall format is going to offer a better return than the P4P monthly fees would. As far as I know, there will be no extra costs for "expansions", as any updates and new inclusions will simply be part of the game's normal updating process.

The game will be a downloadable client though, none of this artard Flash/Java crap you see in some of the other games. And as far as I know, the graphics are going to be similar to the newer JA:BiA, so even though the graphics look great it will still not require a military-grade supercomputer to run.

I have also heard there are plans to include a possible mobile app that allows people to access certain features of the game, similar to what a few other newer games are doing. I have no more details on that available.

Originally Posted by ToonS

The issue that I have with sub based games is that they run on a predetermined period of days from the time of purchase, or the time that the sub key is applied.
For me it is generally not that I do not have the funds for the month, its more that I don't have the time to play and end up playing a small fraction of the time that I've payed for.

That's the same problem I noted in my first reply. While subscription-based games usually offer more frequent updates and content release, they also have the highest price tag. And if there is a period that you're working overtime or bogged down with writing essays in class, that's less time you have to play even though you're paying for it. It's like renting an apartment while you're living with your parents, just seems like a stupid and wasteful idea.

With P4P games (like LOTRO), you can sub up for the time you want to play, and then unsub when you know you'll be busy. Or if you tend to be busy more often than not, you just stay F2P and buy into the features that you intended to use with your sub. For example, you can buy the level 10-25 instances and wait to buy the level 25-40 stuff later on when you actually need it.

With IM based games though, I think you would need to be careful to not have over powered items for sale that skew the abilities of people that can afford to pay compared to those that cant.

I think that a better method is to have an in-game currency, or currency + resources/energy/mana/whateveryouwanttocallit, so that the only thing that a cashed up player has different is, well, cash.

All of the items/weapons/tools/powers/abilities that can be purchased in the mall can be done so with the in-game currency that can be earned in-game and/or purchased in bulk lots.

The fact is that most games that offer an item store/mall do so because they know there are players out there who absolutely can't stand to lose. Those people are more likely to burn real cash on pimping out their characters in premium gear or obtaining other benefits that other players can't obtain, or can pay to obtain it faster. This in turn gives them an "advantage" that allows them to win more, die less. Sure, it makes it unfair for the rest of us poor folk, but that's just how it goes.

From what I understand of the game concept, the primary focus will be PvE instead of PvP, but will include limited types of PvP interaction for those interested. Nobody will be "forced" into PvP situations usually (at least how it has been discussed at the moment), so I don't think they intend to offer up premium items that will drastically unbalance the game for everyone else.


In many cases, some people will buy items/benefits through an item mall simply because they don't have the time to play as often as others do. By purchasing certain features/benefits such as build reduction times or resource cost reductions, they are able to keep up with those spending more time in the game. Basically, it's a time=money=time scenario. In those cases, the purchase of premium content doesn't necessarily make them "overpowered", but simply allows them to advance at a faster-than-normal rate.

Another common feature of premium content is the purchase of special cosmetic benefits such as outfits, paint schemes, etc that are only available through the store. They offer zero benefit game-wise, it's more or less just another way to make the person feel more like an individual and let them show off how fat their wallet is.

[Nebsif]

im playin Heroes of Newerth (legacy account) and WOT.

Will never touch a Pay to Win game, both coz I dont wanna get raped by wallet warriors - or if I become one, it will feel that im winning coz I paid and not because I achieved something or have sum skillz.

P4Premium like WOT or P4 just cosmetic stuff are the best imo.

[[R-COM]MaSSive]

F2P dlc or buy a hard copy. Don't trust in gain from pay to win, that wont make me better in any point of view.

[pfhatoa]

I've only been playing WoW, fairly much, though not any more. So I voted for Subscription based as I never used the "in-game shop". Why?

The stability offered by having a defined customer-seller relationship where I have paid for my experience, in the event of a conflict.

The fact that I always feel a bit "cheated" if I use a "free" product which somehow gets money anyway.

And that I liked WoW more than any other game. E.g. gaming experience over paying method.

[Zemciugas]

Free to play. If it's very good then one time pay. If the devs are very greedy then add a item shop and a metric ton of customizations like bf p4f.