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View Poll Results: MMOs I usually play are :
Monthly Subscription ONLY (no added cost after that) 6 13.04%
100% Free to Play ONLY (can't buy anything ingame even if I wanted) 12 26.09%
F2P with Item Mall - But I never purchase 20 43.48%
F2P with Item Mall - purchase for less then 5$/month 7 15.22%
F2P with Item Mall - purchase for less then 10$/month 1 2.17%
F2P with Item Mall - purchase for more then 15$/month 0 0%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-12-2012, 07:49 AM   #41
[R-DEV]Ninja2dan
PR:BF2 Developer

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Default Re: [POLL REOPENED] Poll for MMO players

I understand what you mean, but the problem is trying to develop F2P gameplay that doesn't say to those free players "don't get too excited, you're going to die anyways until you pay us". There are still quite a few players that play MMOs yet choose to have minimal interaction with other players, so basically forcing them to group up in order to have a standing chance at survival is going to create a lot of problems.

One thing that we're looking to do with this project is create a game that is primarily aimed at PvE, with PvP being totally optional and never "forced". That way, we can offer items through a store or premium access that in essence do make "rich" players more powerful or more effective than the poor people, but in the end it will have very little influence on everyone else. All it will mean is that some people will be able to kill the PvE enemies faster or easier, build better "bases", craft better items, etc that have no real effect on everyone else. Would I have any right to be pissed off that you have more machine guns than me? Not if you can't use those MGs as a means to whoop my ass. Will I care if you are dropping $300 a month on extra resources to build a megafortress? Not if the game mechanics don't require me to have to attack your fortress in order to progress through the game.

As for the PvP aspect, we might do some kind of pairing system. Each article of equipment (weapons, armor, etc) is worth so many points, used to calculate your overall "challenge level". Players are then paired up with other players within an equivalent range. This way, those that pay for better gear are not necessarily at an "advantage", it just means they are able to go up against other players at a faster pace than someone else with an equal amount of game time under their belt who chose not to pay.

We feel that by shifting the game to more of a PvE-based aspect, we can offer more items/features through a store or through premium access without upsetting any balance concerns. It also means we can concentrate more on a good storyline and character development instead of people going more for the ganking.


One of the things I enjoy most about the majority of SP games is that they have a very strong storyline and you get more emotionally attached to the characters and plot. In some cases, it's almost like an interactive movie where everything you do seems to have a purpose. I have seen very few MMOs that offered such, and most end up being just a grind-fest so you can prepare for more PvP. Look at the end-game content for most MMOs, it's mostly about raiding or PvP than anything. And because I'm not a fan of PvP, I end up feeling that most games are pointless to play once you hit level cap.


Another popular idea we have is to push some sort of "social" system, where players have other tasks available besides just going out on quests and killing this, looting that, etc. I'll bring up SWG again, because the housing aspect of that game was almost like a whole game within itself. If I was tired of PvP or whatever, I could spend hours or even days just decorating my structures. And their crafting system was also amazing. Not only was it quite complex, but it also allowed each player to produce an item that was totally unique both in appearance and specs. When you placed items on a vendor for sale, you weren't simply trying to compete with others in pricing, but in quality. So many other games out there have much simpler crafting mechanics, where everyone basically stamps out the exact same items with the same stats and same appearances. Eventually, you see far too many people that look alike, wear the same armor, use the same weapon, etc. Yet individuality and personal customization are one of the biggest desires of online players.


As of now, we're just in the very beginning stages of development. We are just starting to work on the conceptual phase, such as the basic features/dynamics of the game. We haven't even selected an engine yet, nor do we have any programmers, coders, modelers, animators, artists, etc. We'll pick up those people once we have more of the details fleshed out, but we want to do this right so we're not rushing things. If all works out, we'll have a game that many people will enjoy. We might not get rich, but at least we'll have fun during the process and hopefully end up with a product that is good enough to stick with for a while.


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Old 06-13-2012, 02:54 PM   #42
Qaiex

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Default Re: [POLL REOPENED] Poll for MMO players

The thing is, aside from cosmetics and unnecessary stuff like added inventory space. You need to let everyone have access to the same content.
Even if it takes 3 times as long to get something without paying, the free players still need to be able to get that ultimate weapon or whatever, without paying. Otherwise you divide your playerbase between paying players and free players, and that just splits the entire game in two, and those who pay feel like the game is empty, and those who play for free feel like they're being treated like second class citizens.

Paying for convenience? Yes.
Paying for power? Never.

It's okay to let people buy things like extra bank space, some mount or something with a different skin or model, character slots, stuff like that. Things you don't really need, but might want.
Even things like rings or stuff that lets you get like 10%-30% extra experience, even if that is bordering on essentially forcing people to buy that, just to be able to keep up with everyone else.

But never power, never extra damage, or better weapons.
Look at Age of Conan, they are a perfect example of how NOT to do it. Their F2P model was to essentially lock down 80% of the game content for anyone who isn't paying. You have to pay for dungeons, and even character classes. I mean that's just fucked up.
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Old 06-13-2012, 04:49 PM   #43
The Iron Dreamer

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Default Re: [POLL REOPENED] Poll for MMO players

^^
This. I think that this is the same thing that they have at WoT...

I think that you may need a new poll...
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Last edited by The Iron Dreamer; 06-13-2012 at 04:55 PM..
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Old 06-14-2012, 12:30 PM   #44
Web_cole
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Default Re: [POLL REOPENED] Poll for MMO players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qaiex View Post
Paying for convenience? Yes.
Paying for power? Never.
I 100% agree, but at the same time I sympathize with what Dan is saying. It seems like it would be really difficult to know where to draw the line.


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Old 06-16-2012, 12:00 PM   #45
[R-DEV]Ninja2dan
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Default Re: [POLL REOPENED] Poll for MMO players

With such a project being quite a large burden for just one person to handle, I have recruited a close friend of mine to assist with some of the conceptual phase of the project. Although he has zero experience or skills as a game developer, he has been playing PC games almost as long as I have and has played a wide range of MMO genres. After discussing the project with him for a few hours, we have come to the conclusion that forming a "Free to Play, Pay for Premium with Item Mall" is the best option.

Currently we intend to offer limited gameplay access through the F2P aspect, with the option to pay a monthly fee for premium access. Through the item mall, players can then select certain features of premium access to "unlock" (either permanently or for set periods of time). Everyone will also have access to items through the store that are generally unavailable through normal gameplay, such as special cosmetic items, XP boosts, "keys" to rare chests, limited-edition vehicles/weapons/armor/etc. Nothing that will really make anyone exceptionally superior to those not buying such items, but still offer a return for their investment.

This project is going to take a long time to complete, but we're going to make sure we do things right and end up with a project proposal that appeals to a wide range of gamers and offers a product that will survive more than a few months. Eventually I might also try acquiring our own forum so we can post discussion topics and survey polls for the project, as I don't want to become a "PR Squatter". Professional courtesy states I keep the two separated.


I appreciate the replies to the topic and survey poll, feel free to continue posting poll responses or comments. I might refer back to this section from time to time to review those comments and poll data as necessary. But because this project is not affiliated with PR or the PR staff, I will not be posting any further specifics of the project or answer any questions related specifically to the details of my project here. As I said, I'm not going to solicit another product on the PR forums.


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Old 06-16-2012, 01:49 PM   #46
[R-MOD]Saobh
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Default Re: [POLL REOPENED] Poll for MMO players

How many people will be working on this project ? As any original MMO needs a wide variety of competences.

Hope you're not building the engine from scratch tho

Anyways best of luck to all involved !

The only acceptable 'Lone Wolf' you'll be allowed to play :
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Old 06-16-2012, 02:06 PM   #47
[R-DEV]Ninja2dan
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Default Re: [POLL REOPENED] Poll for MMO players

It appears that as of yesterday I was given the role of lead project developer, which basically means it's my responsibility to come up with all of the design aspect. I have been given a set period of time to develop and compose a project summary and proposal, at which time my work will be reviewed and it will be determined if enough progress has been made and if the end product will meet their needs. If at that time everything looks good, they'll go ahead with the next phase which is securing initial investors and hiring additional staff.

I spent about 7 hours last night meeting with a close friend, and so far it has been decided that he will assist with some of the initial design decisions. So for right now, the "team" is two people.

Once enough of the conceptual phase is knocked out, the first staff hired will be conceptual artists and IT geeks who will determine which engine is the best choice for our needs. After the engine has been determined we'll have a few meetings to discuss how the engine of choice will impact our design plan, and we can make additions or modifications as necessary.

Once that is done, I guess they'll start hiring the "physical" staff that will include modelers, animators, world designers, programmers/coders, everyone needed to start turning the concept into a working alpha product. Development will continue from there into beta testing, securing servers, etc. I'm told I'll remain on hand as an adviser to the project after that, but most of the work from then on will be beyond my skills.


I have been told they plan to use a ready-made engine, not an in-house. Luckily that will reduce costs and development time, but they'll have to examine all engines to find one that best suits our needs.


It also appears that the early stages will mostly include just a handful of staff working from home or whatever, but as the project progresses and they are more certain that it will survive the cut, they'll probably end up setting up shop somewhere with a dedicated on-site crew. I really don't know yet, and once it gets to that stage I'll pretty much just be the guy on the other end of a conference call.


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Old 06-16-2012, 08:16 PM   #48
Qaiex

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Default Re: [POLL REOPENED] Poll for MMO players

From Subscription Model R&D to Lead Project Developer in like a week, lol.
I guess congratumalations are in order.

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Old 06-16-2012, 09:19 PM   #49
[R-DEV]Ninja2dan
PR:BF2 Developer

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Default Re: [POLL REOPENED] Poll for MMO players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qaiex View Post
From Subscription Model R&D to Lead Project Developer in like a week, lol.
I've done game development before, but nothing on this scale as "lead". But due to my previous experiences in screenwriting, technical writing, and game design I guess they feel I am capable. I'm comfortable with the task, and understand it won't be easy. Having just myself doing most of the work and a friend as my only source of discussion, well that's going to lengthen the time it takes to complete the job.

I'm up for the challenge though, and look forward to seeing a game that people will enjoy when such a genre in MMOs is lacking. I just hope that my participation won't spoil it, as I intend to play the game once it goes live. Free lifetime premium access is too good to pass up.


And I wouldn't say "congrats" until I can see nothing less than a working beta and positive testing results. A "good luck" is probably more appropriate.


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Old 06-17-2012, 05:03 AM   #50
[R-MOD]Saobh
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Default Re: [POLL REOPENED] Poll for MMO players

Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-DEV]Ninja2dan View Post
...

I appreciate the replies to the topic and survey poll, feel free to continue posting poll responses or comments. I might refer back to this section from time to time to review those comments and poll data as necessary. But because this project is not affiliated with PR or the PR staff, I will not be posting any further specifics of the project or answer any questions related specifically to the details of my project here. As I said, I'm not going to solicit another product on the PR forums.
Well I'm pretty sure nobody would mind if you bounced ideas off of us, as its a lot less spammy then having people copy paste 9gag/reddit/4chan memes

But otherwise yeah having a blog or active twitter account along the line for such projects seems the way to go these days as it helps to build an active and interested community even before the game is even in alpha.

Minecraft never would have had the same success (6,276,399 bought the game on PC as of now) if Notch hadn't been so responsive with his twitter and his blog posts with the small number of avid curious dwarf fortress fans he had ti start with.

The only acceptable 'Lone Wolf' you'll be allowed to play :
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