Random link - Or My civil disobedience

[BlakeJr]

In a strictly non compliant way with the new "rules" I hereby invite everyone to discuss the topic of freedom of speech on any forum in general and this one in particular.
Ok, the random link is not that random considering the topic but what the hey...
Restrictions on Free Speech

Does Freedom of Speech (FoS) apply fully to these forums?

Should they allow a totally free reign here, as in NO moderation?

What levels of interference with YOUR FoS can YOU tolerate?

Should FoS be the rule no matter what? I ask this in a general sense encompassing Freedom of Press (FoP) as well. This question is NOT focused on forums, PR or any other forums.

So many questions!

What are your views on FoS and FoP?
Like my acronyms? I didn't make them up myself.

Oh, and DO try to keep it civil, or the forum ghouls will come and make this thread inaccessible.

[Fullforce]

The rules I posted are guidelines with a little force. I'm sick of people posting links and expecting discussion to just appear. There are also generally accepted internet guidelines when posting on a forum. Spam, random links, and offensive topics are no-go on many forums and no-go on this forum.

Personally, I feel the mods do too much moderating. There should be some Freedom of Speech, but spam and offensive topics are not allowed, full stop.

And remember - there is freedom of speech on the internet - but only if the owner of the site allows it. We have control over your posts (hell I could replace your entire post with I LOVE MEN ) and can delete and control your freedom of speech, something I feel is neccessary in a forum with many members. By all means - you are allowed to speak your mind - but topics which are considered no-go or offensive violate this forums code of conduct - which, coincidentally, you accepted when you joined the forum.

[[R-CON]MrD]

There are basic legal rules for forums, the people here rarely beak them. but other additional rules aren't too bad. We live with an illusion of Freedom Of Speech to keep the citizens happy, but just be glad you don't live in Poland right now!

Police hunt farting dissident

Police in Poland have launched a nationwide hunt for a man who farted loudly when asked what he thought of the president.

Hubert Hoffman, 45, was charged with "contempt for the office of the head of state" for his actions after he was stopped by police in a routine check at a Warsaw railway station.

He complained that under President Lech Kaczynski and his twin brother Jaroslaw, the country was returning to a Communist style dictatorship.

When told to show more respect for the country's rulers, he farted loudly and was promptly arrested.

Hoffmann was arrested and released on bail but failed to turn up at a Warsaw court early this week to be tried, and the judge in the case rejected an appeal by defence lawyers to throw the charges out.

A court spokesman said: "Such a case of disrespect is taken very seriously."

Instead the court ordered the police to start a nationwide hunt for the man, and interpol have been alerted.

[BlakeJr]

Originally Posted by [R-DEV]Fullforce

The rules I posted are guidelines with a little force. I'm sick of people posting links and expecting discussion to just appear. There are also generally accepted internet guidelines when posting on a forum. Spam, random links, and offensive topics are no-go on many forums and no-go on this forum.

Personally, I feel the mods do too much moderating. There should be some Freedom of Speech, but spam and offensive topics are not allowed, full stop.

And remember - there is freedom of speech on the internet - but only if the owner of the site allows it. We have control over your posts (hell I could replace your entire post with I LOVE MEN ) and can delete and control your freedom of speech, something I feel is neccessary in a forum with many members. By all means - you are allowed to speak your mind - but topics which are considered no-go or offensive violate this forums code of conduct - which, coincidentally, you accepted when you joined the forum.

Thank you, this basically sums up MY view as well, on the code of conduct that should apply to these forums.

What about the rest of society? This thread is not supposed to focus solely on the PR forums or even on Internet but on all media.

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

The point is moot! as Jesse J used to say.
The PC police from both Left and Right will continue to limit what you can say and what words you can use to say it. The Muslim cartoon threat will spread here soon too and they will be come a protected teflon style class that can never be critized w/o cries of racism.
I liked it better in the pre-PC days, you could tell who was a bigot easily and avoid them, but w/ PC you may know someone for days or weeks or longer and then all of a sudden it slips out, the N word or a casual anti Semitic remark, it doens't matter. I have dropped a few friends because of that, no drama, just dont go near them.
It would be easier if we could be more honest. Sure, some people's feelings will get hurt but then all the cards are on the table and you can deal with them then.
We shouldn't be posting porn or truly abusing anyone but some of the subjects draw heated opinions and that is just fine. If there is some name calling,... so what ? No true harm is done.
I am curious, there were people out there truly offended by religious for political arguments?
However heated or logical they may have been ?
The restrictions on the PRMM forums should be about posting in the appropriate area then if there are subjects I'm sure to be offened by I can simply not go there.
Freedom of Speech is at the behest of our hosts, PRMM, as it should be for providing us the forum itself and I will endevour to persevere to obey any and all applicable regulations.

[[R-MOD]Dylan]

I belive FoS can and SHOULD be used wherever you want, but that just isnt the way things work. Ive always thought of freedom of speech being a giant loophole because their are lots of laws surrounding it that limit what you can and cannot say to someone. Of course these laws are for the best, but some things people say can be misinterpreted and can get you into trouble. In the case of a public forum, like here, Fullforce stated that it is up to the owner to limit the FoS on his/her forum. To me, that is breach of peoples rights, because the power can and will sometimes be abused. As most of you know, our forum feels a bit "restrictive" at the moment, but thats because of our rules, and most of you dont seem to come into agreement with them. I think we should be a little more descriptive in the future about how we enforce them so it is a little more clear for you all...Im rambling, so ignore me.

[KingofCamelot]

Originally Posted by [R-MOD]Dylan

In the case of a public forum, like here, Fullforce stated that it is up to the owner to limit the FoS on his/her forum. To me, that is breach of peoples rights, because the power can and will sometimes be abused. As most of you know, our forum feels a bit "restrictive" at the moment, but thats because of our rules, and most of you dont seem to come into agreement with them. I think we should be a little more descriptive in the future about how we enforce them so it is a little more clear for you all...Im rambling, so ignore me.

Rules on a forum are in no way a breach of anyone's rights. Freedom of speech refers to the government not being able to limit what you say. Forums are not the government, they are a private individual/individuals providing a service, in this case for free. To recieve that service you have to agree to whatever rules they set, and they can change those rules as they see fit. Just like if you own a business, you can refuse service to anyone you'd like. You are offering a service, no one can force you to render that service against your will.

People have to remember that the government and private individuals are two different things. The government is careful not to infringe on people's rights, while a private individual doesn't have to give you freedom of speech.

I think thats a good thing. The government shouldn't have the ability to regulate what you can and can't do in private contracts with other consenting individuals. The government isn't here to babysit you, they'll make sure they treat everyone fairly, but whether you are treated fairly by your fellow citizens isn't their problem, unless they break a law while they are treating you unfairly.

[[R-MOD]Dylan]

Originally Posted by [R-DEV]KingofCamelot

Rules on a forum are in no way a breach of anyone's rights. Freedom of speech refers to the government not being able to limit what you say. Forums are not the government, they are a private individual/individuals providing a service, in this case for free. To recieve that service you have to agree to whatever rules they set, and they can change those rules as they see fit. Just like if you own a business, you can refuse service to anyone you'd like. You are offering a service, no one can force you to render that service against your will.

People have to remember that the government and private individuals are two different things. The government is careful not to infringe on people's rights, while a private individual doesn't have to give you freedom of speech.

I think thats a good thing. The government shouldn't have the ability to regulate what you can and can't do in private contracts with other consenting individuals. The government isn't here to babysit you, they'll make sure they treat everyone fairly, but whether you are treated fairly by your fellow citizens isn't their problem, unless they break a law while they are treating you unfairly.

Well thats a bit more than I expected, but I did expect to hear that back. I do realize all you said and, I respect that as people do need to set their own rules especially in places where public debates, unruly people, and the all too common waste of bandwith occure. Its a mini society and rules keep it civilized. I am just saying above that you should be able to talk about certain things without having it be called unjust and removed. That is unless it is unfair to someone then it should be removed. I see the line, and when not to cross it.

[Wraith]

I guess I have a slightly different view on forums and freedom of speach. It is sometimes easy to forget that in a "civilized" world we do not have the ability nor the "right" to speak our minds without conscequence.

Nude Art:

Although a women without a top nor underwear may seem like art under trained eyes it is not so for a child of 12 years. The fact is the government of several countries considers this providing pornography to a minor. Internet law and most international laws don't look to kindly on this. I for one don't want to be the one to have the FBI or Interpool kick my door down because as a moderator I am responsible for the content on the site.

Politics:
Honestly I could care less. I normally would just skip these threads but if I have learned one thing modding these forums it is that Political forums bread spam and flaming. As stated by several Devs in the open forums there are a ton of political websites that you can go debate untill your face turns blue and your fingers fall off.

Google/Youtube videos:
The greatest thing since sliced white bread to hit the net. However is it offensive to post anti government or kids getting hurt. NO IT IS NOT. I realize that a lot of you kids think it's funny to post this Garbage on the forums and then rack up posts lol and rofling about it. It's not. It's spam and unless it has a direct bearing on the mod or a military theme I say we delete it.

Frankly I want to talk about two things at this point. One is the offtopic forum and the other is Perception VS. Reality.

1. Offtopic.
I realize that this subject eludes a lot of forum users. These threads are designed to encapsulate everything related to BF2, PR and gaming in general that is not covered by another specific thread. "useless spam" refers to everything related to the above mentioned catagories that does not fall under the ethos of a specific thread. That does NOT mean that because there is no forum for google video that you can post it or whatever you want in the off topic thread.

2. Perception VS. Reality.
As a supervisor in the civilian world and as an ex US Airforce Captain this is something that is near and dear to me and my life. I can't tell you how many times that I have read through these forums and wanted to tell the smacktard newb what an f'ing idiot he is and that he doesn't know what he is talking about. However I am aware of the perception of me and my role in this mod. Wraith is the guy who locks threads with no reason or because he doesn't agree with the topic. The fact is before I post or render any judgement on a thread I ask my self one question, Is this topic/post something that is/will be offensive to 2 or more users on these forums. If I can answer yes than I lock it. The point guys and gals is not that the thread or post was not offensive to you but to others. I understand that we have people on the forums that study art and can see the primal beuty of a nude portriate. I am also aware of the 14 year old child that believe it or not has never seen anything like that and is deeply hurt by the post. I can't believe that there is one person on the forums that would honestly and malitiousely post something to hurt another user.

That is where the R-MOD's come in. We are here to help you. If you slip up and post something negative or inflamitory we'll be here to catch you. If you post something that is offensive or if the post gets reported than we will be here to act. If a spammer comes on the boards and creates a post that auto executes a spyware payload (happened two weeks ago) we'll be here to delete the thread and ban the user. I wish we could all understand that life isn't all about what we want and that even in a world with free speech you can't say anything you want. Use some common sense, a little bit of smarts and lets cut down on the ammount of spam and offensive posts.

Lastly thanks Blake for making the thread.

[[R-DEV]duckhunt]

thats what I rekkons of freedom of speech. Not always great