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Old 08-17-2011, 10:07 PM   #101
whatshisname55

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Default Re: Unlimited Detail, Graphics Engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desertfox View Post
Unlimited.
1.
not limited; unrestricted; unconfined: unlimited trade.

If it is as they say it is then yeah, sure seems like the detail is not limited which hmmm makes it unlimited.
Sorry, I don't understand what you're trying to say here. Can you explain further?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Triggerfinger View Post
I like how people start nagging about some small company wich has set a breakthrough for 3D modeling and wich claimed that they their way of working has 'unlimited'graphics (unlimited in humans eyes), this little 'lie' (you can't even call it a lie, if you're too dumb to believe that something can have unlimited details than it's your problem) do no harm to anyone of us
Never in my life have I said that I don't believe this technology is possible. Please understand that I'm not against the concept of Unlimited Detail, I am just trying to show that, according to what Euclidian has told us, their claims are not possible.

I realize that this is a breakthrough if what they say is true, but you can't make a believable claim if you don't provide evidence to support it. If you have seen such evidence, then please share because I have not seen it. I am not harming anyone with what I say unless you consider it harm to show people this logic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triggerfinger View Post
but..

people don't say anything about the state of mind of western world, corrupt governments and unapproved wars in different areas wich do harm millions of people every year. Yeah, seems nice and logic.
Since when did politics have anything to do with this game engine? Why should I say anything about those things if they aren't related to the current discussion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triggerfinger View Post
Yeah I'll probably will get a sh*tstorm of walls of texts.
Well, you asked for it. Enjoy it while it lasts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by badmojo420 View Post
When the guy who made the engine specifically says it is not the same as what your comparing it to, then I believe your comparisons are invalid. Are you implying you know more about his engine that he does?
I haven't seen any such implication. It may not be the same as the things it is being compared to, but it is similar in certain aspects. It is being compared in the ways that it relates. Besides, they haven't explained what exactly it IS. They give us a vague idea of what the engine is supposed to be and then expect us to put complete faith in it. I'm not going to put my trust into something that isn't explained to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by badmojo420 View Post
Ranting about potential problems is pointless when we don't have all the facts about the subject. You make it difficult to debate things with because you're not actually talking about the game engine anymore, rather you are talking about problems with other similar technologies. And while what you're saying is true, it might not even apply to this engine.
This is very true, but the problem is that we don't even know what technology the engine uses because, as you said yourself, they haven't given us the facts, so we have to make due with what we have. We are using our knowledge to counter their unsupported claims. When Euclidian decides to give us real evidence that actually proves their claims I will be happy to learn from them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Triggerfinger View Post
I'm making an overview of the people (in average) on the forums, I really can't see what the problem is with the fact that the makers of this engine or whatsoever overexaggerated with their claims, people say different bad things about the ground-breaking engine but they play a mod wich claims to be realistic but isn't at all.
The problem with the fact that they over exaggerated it is that they are basically lying. Exaggeration is basically a form of lying and they haven't done anything to redeem themselves.

The fact that we play a mod that claims to be something it isn't has nothing to do with the fact that we realize that it is not what it claims to be. Personally, I play Project Reality because it is fun and I enjoy it, but I wouldn't say that it is realistic.

Just as well, I would be happy to play a game on the Unlimited Detail engine if it were possible, despite the fact that the detail is actually very limited.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triggerfinger View Post
Try to see things relative, for instance; PR claims to be realistic, yes PR is more realistic than Call of Duty but is far from realism.
This discussion is not about whether we would play a game using the Unlimited Detail engine, it's about whether their claims for the engine are true or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triggerfinger View Post
The same things go for the engine; it has unlimited details for the human eyes, the details and graphics are a trillion times better than ArmA2 or Crysis but it is (not that) far from reality.
Actually, this is not true at all. The details are quite limited to human eyes. Just like I have said before, if you pay attention you can easily see the low quality of the graphics. Take for example, the ground, there is only a single layer of unusually large dirt grains on top of a flat surface covered in a low resolution texture. Look at the leaves too, they are for the most part flat and covered in another low resolution texture.

It is possible that these really were made with their "programmers art" but we cannot know for sure. The only way they could prove that the detail can be even higher than that is if they hire professional graphics artists to make another demo showing better detail.
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Old 08-18-2011, 07:01 AM   #102
Katarn
Retired PR Developer
Default Re: Unlimited Detail, Graphics Engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by whatshisname55 View Post
Actually, this is not true at all. The details are quite limited to human eyes. Just like I have said before, if you pay attention you can easily see the low quality of the graphics. Take for example, the ground, there is only a single layer of unusually large dirt grains on top of a flat surface covered in a low resolution texture. Look at the leaves too, they are for the most part flat and covered in another low resolution texture.

It is possible that these really were made with their "programmers art" but we cannot know for sure. The only way they could prove that the detail can be even higher than that is if they hire professional graphics artists to make another demo showing better detail.
This is textbook example of programmer's art. If the "unusually large dirt grains" were any smaller, you couldn't see them in a streaming video, and the single layer is just laziness (who really wants to place tiny rocks on the ground?). The low res texture for the terrain is also commonplace and is done all the time in games when people think it's covered by an object. The leaves (on the ground) I can't really say much about, they did look pretty awful up close but the leaves on the trees looked pretty good. Could just be a bad starting model.

The tech here works and animation integration will probably be a lengthy process, but by no means unattainable. I wouldn't expect to see this type of tech used in any type of AAA game for at least a decade.
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Old 08-18-2011, 04:49 PM   #103
whatshisname55

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Default Re: Unlimited Detail, Graphics Engine

Couldn't they just make a small section of dirt and copy it all over like they did with the other objects?

That's what I was thinking though; this technology is definitely possible but a ways off from completion. I wonder how long it will be before Euclidian comes back out of hiding, I'd like to hear what they have by then.
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Old 08-18-2011, 04:59 PM   #104
Pedz
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Default Re: Unlimited Detail, Graphics Engine

Just a thought, does tellestation not pretty much do the same thing with detail, but on a polygon and much more detailed level? (given you have the power to use it). From what I've seen in AvP it works very well, you do not notice the bad res textures, and everything has a certain amount of polygons..


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Old 08-18-2011, 05:23 PM   #105
Katarn
Retired PR Developer
Default Re: Unlimited Detail, Graphics Engine

Tesselation can help silhouettes, but surface detail doesn't get better. It can also make thing look a little too "smooth". This type of representation gives you complete control from the get-go about how it looks, without very many restrictions. Considering most AAA games already generate high-resolution projection models to generate normal maps, displacement maps, and/or parallax maps, this type of technology essentially cuts the amount of work on artists in half with no change in initial workflow (from what I understand).
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Old 08-19-2011, 07:58 PM   #106
badmojo420
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Default Re: Unlimited Detail, Graphics Engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by whatshisname55 View Post
They give us a vague idea of what the engine is supposed to be and then expect us to put complete faith in it. I'm not going to put my trust into something that isn't explained to me.

This is very true, but the problem is that we don't even know what technology the engine uses because, as you said yourself, they haven't given us the facts, so we have to make due with what we have. We are using our knowledge to counter their unsupported claims. When Euclidian decides to give us real evidence that actually proves their claims I will be happy to learn from them.
I don't have complete faith in this engine. I have an interest in seeing where it goes. I have an understanding of their goals. And I hope it all works out.

Why do you feel the need to counter something you don't fully understand? Shouldn't you wait for all the facts before you try to build a case against it?
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Old 08-19-2011, 08:20 PM   #107
Hitman.2.5
Default Re: Unlimited Detail, Graphics Engine

Since David Thorne (legend) is from Australia and he made me change my mind, that Trolls come from Lithuania and are now from Australia I'm not sure weather to believe this or not :/

Derpist
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Old 08-19-2011, 09:28 PM   #108
whatshisname55

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Default Re: Unlimited Detail, Graphics Engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by badmojo420 View Post
Why do you feel the need to counter something you don't fully understand? Shouldn't you wait for all the facts before you try to build a case against it?
I counter it because Euclidian seems to be acting as if they have given us the facts to explain. The main guy always says something like "It's not this, it's not that, it's a search algorithm so it can work fine on software only," but that explains just about nothing.
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Old 08-20-2011, 11:47 AM   #109
badmojo420
Supporting Member
Default Re: Unlimited Detail, Graphics Engine

So perhaps use that as the basis for your counter? Don't use the limitations of other similar technologies to try and dismiss this engines potential. The way you guys are talking about it, sounds like Euclideon said something along the lines of "We did voxels and ray tracing better than anyone else out there. They failed, and we triumphed!" which is completely contrary to what they're claiming. They mention those other technologies and the limitations associated with them, and then specifically say they're going in another direction with their engine, therefore those limitations aren't present.
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Old 08-20-2011, 02:44 PM   #110
whatshisname55

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Default Re: Unlimited Detail, Graphics Engine

But they don't say what direction they are going. How are we supposed to base counters on things they don't tell us?
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