Please do something about these admins who cant stand being punished!

[Ti_GER Niqo]

Well, normally if it was a "bad action" people apologize immediately, so they already know it was BS. In that case I forgive (I usually forgive all accidental TKs). Btw, punishing TKs has (at least in vBF2) no further effect on the score of the TKer. The points are already deducted, when the TK happens. Same with PR?

[Biggaayal]

Originally Posted by willgar

Disagree - if an accidental team kill is due to really bad or reckless play then a punish will ultimately help that player to play better in future. If you just forgive, then that player will never learn that poor actions have consequences

Lol it's a person, not a rat that you can teach stuff (not really effectively) by giving it electroshocks.

Countless psychological research has demonstrated that even for a rat (but more so for humans), punishment (=punishing a tk) is a very poor stimulant to learn something.

Modelling on the other hand (setting the example) and positive reinforcement (forgiving) are very effective to stimulate new behaviour.

In fact, punishing doesn't teach the person/rat anything, but how to avoid the punishment.
The result is... more creativity in breaking the rules.

I think you've been believing Clockwork orange a bit too much. Unlike the film's reality, humans aren't rats.

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

How much creativity is needed to teamkill ?
Punishment does alter behaviour, otherwise why kick and ban ?

[Biggaayal]

Originally Posted by ArmedDrunk&Angry

How much creativity is needed to teamkill ?
Punishment does alter behaviour, otherwise why kick and ban ?

Believe me I read A lot about this subject. Punishment is a bad tool, and should always be avoided if a positive response hasn't been tried yet.

A ban isn't so much a punishment as just keeping them away from you.

[Zybon]

Originally Posted by Biggaayal

Countless psychological research has demonstrated that even for a rat (but more so for humans), punishment (=punishing a tk) is a very poor stimulant to learn something.

Modelling on the other hand (setting the example) and positive reinforcement (forgiving) are very effective to stimulate new behaviour.

In fact, punishing doesn't teach the person/rat anything, but how to avoid the punishment.
The result is... more creativity in breaking the rules.

No. Theres punishment for learning and punishment for deterrence. You're talking about punishment for learning, which doesn't apply here. Punishment (jail time or fines) is part of every nation's legal system, and one of the big reasons for its existence is to deter criminals. And it works. People fill up parking meters, park in the appropriate spaces, etc. to avoid being ticketed.

ANYWAY....

I don't see why people get so antsy about being punished. Sure, there are times when some moron will run over your mine and punish you, but theres really no reason to worry about it. You will NOT get enough punishments to be kicked, unless you deserve it.

If I am closing in on an enemy position and one of my teammates misaims a grenade or takes both me and the enemy out with an explosive, it's understandable and the tk will be forgiven. Any time there is a tk where there simply isn't enough time in the situation to take the steps necessary to check for friend or foe will be forgiven. But if I am closing in (I.E. moving with my back to my allies) and they shoot at me multiple times (eventually killing me,) they deserve to be punished. Next time they had better ensure that the target (that isn't posing an active threat) is actually an enemy before firing, or they should be punished again. And again, and again, until they learn to watch what they're shooting at.

Saying "sorry" doesn't fix anything. The deed is done and dead people can't hear you apologize.

[{GD}Ghost]

I have to say the attitude of some of these clans that run servers is appauling and displays nothing more than power hungry arrogance simply because "they can". Unfortunately not everyone that is given admin status for a server SHOULD have admin status.

What can you do other then to not play there if they do not admin in a fair manner? I dont' think anyone here can really do much about how they admin their server as long as they are putting up the $$ for it. If no one plays there then that may send the only message that CAN be sent.

This is a valid complaint, however.

[gazzthompson]

punishing for a TK is stupid , (unless blatant) , it dose not help people learn it just pisses people off, every 1 tk's every now and then it happens. forgive and play on.

[Biggaayal]

Originally Posted by Zybon

No. Theres punishment for learning and punishment for deterrence. You're talking about punishment for learning, which doesn't apply here. Punishment (jail time or fines) is part of every nation's legal system, and one of the big reasons for its existence is to deter criminals. And it works. People fill up parking meters, park in the appropriate spaces, etc. to avoid being ticketed.

ANYWAY....

I can see what you mean, but punishment for deterrence is legal concept. In psychology, they would say punishing to learn not to do something... My point being that they are the same, with a different name.

-If the punishment works, why are there murders/tk's?
-Jail=Ban; you protect the society first, punishment is second.

Gazzthompson has the right view imo. Either you want to win as a team, and you don't irritate your team-mates by punishing or you don't.

By the way, on TG I believe 3 punishes earns you a kick, possibly ban for an hour (not sure). All you need is one bad nade, and three "team"-mates and you're out for quite some time. I don't do that.

Punishing is to boot intentional TK-ers when there is no admin around.

[DavidP]

Ikarti I've had enough of your shit! You get mad when i piss off method on bf2s, You stalk me to RH and tk me, And now you got a problem with me making a complaint against assholes like you. Ikarti dont test me kid! I hate noobs like you! I am going to get you back if you piss me off enough!

[Waaah_Wah]

When i get TKed i usually give them like 10 sec to say sorry and if they dont i press page down. I mean its really annoying when i manage to sneak in the enemy base and try to knife a guy, someone starts shooting and he hits ME.