firefights end to quick ?

gazzthompson · 04-18-2007, 12:27 PM

is it me or do firefights end to quick ? i mean i see on news and documentaries firefights going on for hours and like 4/5 people killed or wounded yet on PR firefights r over in seconds with like 6 ppl or more dead ? and in like a hour battle 150/200 on one team! depending on the lvl , now i dont know how to slow this down or if there is a need i just wanted to see if u feel the same ? and if so mabye we could think some ideas up.

discuss please :P.

i know the speed of the people has been discussed but dont think the actull firefights have.

El_Vikingo · 04-18-2007, 12:30 PM

Its the BF2 playing style. Where you can sprint and jump over walls and the spray the enemy dead in seconds. If you die you spawn in 30 sec.

On the documentaries, they wouldn't do that (too rsisky).

SethLive! · 04-18-2007, 12:33 PM

they are over too quick in arma too, even though arma is very realistic. i dont think fear for your life can be modeled in a video game.

com_kieffer · 04-18-2007, 12:34 PM

IRL engagements take place at much longer ranges than in PR plus in pr weapons are very stable so you can easily get your shots off at an enemy nearly instantly after you see him. and IRL you don't get noobs running forwards blindly only to get killed seconds after, chopper pilots don't drop you inthe middle of street whilst under fire,...
you could find thousands of reasons for why PR firefights are ended quickly even ARMA hasn't recreated that.

gazzthompson · 04-18-2007, 12:36 PM

man id love sway on the guns would slow down the firefights a bit , guns r to accurate IMO, but this has been discussed b4 ...

has any 1 got any ideas to slow down the firefights ?

$kelet0r · 04-18-2007, 12:38 PM

I've had moments like that on Fallujah and on Helmand where there have been far more realistic firefights. The problem is the BF2 engine
No weapon sway, no leaning, no dynamic interpretation of cover. In any firefight a huge amount of your body is exposed even when using cover whereas in reality all you would see is the head above the nose and the weapon which at 100+m would be a difficult shot to hit accurately compared to centre mass.

And PRM has RPGs and grenades by the billion, so a firefight is like wandering through a cluster bomb explosion

$kelet0r · 04-18-2007, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gazzthompson

has any 1 got any ideas to slow down the firefights ?

1. Force squads to stick together ALL the time as opposed to the voluntary current situation (infantry allowed to move no further than 20m from squad leaders - visual and audio warning prompt when they do)
2. When there is a casualty, the squad must retreat to a rally point and the squad leader must request the player then respawn to simulate carrying the injured to safety and evacuation. Otherwise the dead player must respawn at main base.

That imo would go a long way to changing the manic run-run, gun-gun mentality in the game. Hence not going to be popular at all.

com_kieffer · 04-18-2007, 12:48 PM

forcing players to stick by the squad leader would kill tactics, there wouldn't be the possibility to use fireteams in the same squad to cover whilst another flanks which would be counter productive probably encouraging players not to squad up on small maps and use TS to communicate thus excluding a number of players from actual teamplay

mammikoura · 04-18-2007, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by $kelet0r

1. Force squads to stick together ALL the time as opposed to the voluntary current situation (infantry allowed to move no further than 20m from squad leaders - visual and audio warning prompt when they do)
2. When there is a casualty, the squad must retreat to a rally point and the squad leader must request the player then respawn to simulate carrying the injured to safety and evacuation. Otherwise the dead player must respawn at main base.

That imo would go a long way to changing the manic run-run, gun-gun mentality in the game. Hence not going to be popular at all.

^^ but the one who died couldn't spawn in the main base. Because then he would have no chance to get to his squad quickly. In which case he would suffer the punishment from not being close to his squad.

What I think would slow firefights down:
longer respawn times
longer distances (coming)
and something else that would make players want to stay alive

As long as players don't really care if they die or not the game is going to be very fast. (fights ending quickly, situations changing constantly etc.)

jerkzilla · 04-18-2007, 12:56 PM

One reason for the low duration of firefights is the poor usage of cover. What I mean by that is that to fire your gun, you have to expose more than half of your body, while in real life, you can just lean but that, I believe, is not possible to code.
Why do people jump out of cover? Well people respawn in the game, while in real life, single player run and gun shooters, you can kill most of the enemy from a distance. So in most cases, when you're forced into a bottleneck or have to few teammates to flank, you have to take the chance and either overrun the enemy or advance to new positions to get the job done. Most times, it ends in failure due to bad timing.
I know a way to stop this from happening: when you die, the game plants a worm on your computer or closes the game and starts defraggin'

View Poll Results: firefights end to quick ?
yes	63	76.83%
no	19	23.17%
Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

04-18-2007, 12:27 PM	#1
gazzthompson Join Date: Jan 2007 United Kingdom Location: norfolk Posts: 2,878	firefights end to quick ? is it me or do firefights end to quick ? i mean i see on news and documentaries firefights going on for hours and like 4/5 people killed or wounded yet on PR firefights r over in seconds with like 6 ppl or more dead ? and in like a hour battle 150/200 on one team! depending on the lvl , now i dont know how to slow this down or if there is a need i just wanted to see if u feel the same ? and if so mabye we could think some ideas up. discuss please :P. i know the speed of the people has been discussed but dont think the actull firefights have.

04-18-2007, 12:30 PM	#2
El_Vikingo Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Inside the "Search Function". Posts: 4,930	Its the BF2 playing style. Where you can sprint and jump over walls and the spray the enemy dead in seconds. If you die you spawn in 30 sec. On the documentaries, they wouldn't do that (too rsisky).
	*If you are reading this dont stop, cause if you do, I'll kick you in the balls.*

04-18-2007, 12:33 PM	#3
SethLive! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Califorina Posts: 1,663	they are over too quick in arma too, even though arma is very realistic. i dont think fear for your life can be modeled in a video game.
	Someone please tell me that the above is irony. Or I'll rip my own eyes out with a sardine. -[R-Mod] Masaq

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04-18-2007, 12:34 PM	#4
com_kieffer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Here, were else ? Posts: 143	IRL engagements take place at much longer ranges than in PR plus in pr weapons are very stable so you can easily get your shots off at an enemy nearly instantly after you see him. and IRL you don't get noobs running forwards blindly only to get killed seconds after, chopper pilots don't drop you inthe middle of street whilst under fire,... you could find thousands of reasons for why PR firefights are ended quickly even ARMA hasn't recreated that.

04-18-2007, 12:36 PM	#5
gazzthompson Join Date: Jan 2007 United Kingdom Location: norfolk Posts: 2,878	man id love sway on the guns would slow down the firefights a bit , guns r to accurate IMO, but this has been discussed b4 ... has any 1 got any ideas to slow down the firefights ?

04-18-2007, 12:38 PM	#6
$kelet0r Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Dublin, Ireland Posts: 1,321	I've had moments like that on Fallujah and on Helmand where there have been far more realistic firefights. The problem is the BF2 engine No weapon sway, no leaning, no dynamic interpretation of cover. In any firefight a huge amount of your body is exposed even when using cover whereas in reality all you would see is the head above the nose and the weapon which at 100+m would be a difficult shot to hit accurately compared to centre mass. And PRM has RPGs and grenades by the billion, so a firefight is like wandering through a cluster bomb explosion

04-18-2007, 12:48 PM	#8
com_kieffer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Here, were else ? Posts: 143	forcing players to stick by the squad leader would kill tactics, there wouldn't be the possibility to use fireteams in the same squad to cover whilst another flanks which would be counter productive probably encouraging players not to squad up on small maps and use TS to communicate thus excluding a number of players from actual teamplay

04-18-2007, 12:56 PM	#10
jerkzilla Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: SPARTAAAA!!!11! Posts: 424	One reason for the low duration of firefights is the poor usage of cover. What I mean by that is that to fire your gun, you have to expose more than half of your body, while in real life, you can just lean but that, I believe, is not possible to code. Why do people jump out of cover? Well people respawn in the game, while in real life, single player run and gun shooters, you can kill most of the enemy from a distance. So in most cases, when you're forced into a bottleneck or have to few teammates to flank, you have to take the chance and either overrun the enemy or advance to new positions to get the job done. Most times, it ends in failure due to bad timing. I know a way to stop this from happening: when you die, the game plants a worm on your computer or closes the game and starts defraggin'

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