Anti Air

[[R-MOD]Mongolian_dude]

FACTS descovered and Proven by the ARRC Air Wing:

The Grail ignores flares

I had an assistant on the ground with a grail. I told him to count to three out loud and then shoot. He shot, i INSTANTLY released flares but regardless was hit.

Second time, i released flares a second in advance. Regardless, i was hit.

Third time, on greasy mullet there is a burning wreck of an APC central to the level. i hoverd behind it and my companion shot me with the grail. It followed the wreck flames, then turned to me. Regardless, i was hit.

Secondly, i hovered off to the side of it by approximately 10 meters. The Grail turned sharpely and then hit me.

Thirdly, i hovered way off to the side of it by about 30-ish meters. Regarldess, i was hit.

During one of the tests where i hovered 30-ish meters off to the side, something odd happaned. The grail missed me once. HOWEVER, i only missed me by a foot, as i saw it go past my cockpit. Even worse, 2 other air viechles in the air, behind me, reported being locked. A Blackhawk was locked temporarily, then an A-10. The A-10 was shot down. This means that the range of the Grail must be able to cover 3/5 of a level the size of greasy mullet and still down an air craft moving horizontaly from it.

All above tests, i was in a Cobra

The Grail turns WAY TOO SHARP

A companion of mine was shot down by myself. I waited until he was out of my view distance scale for about 3 seconds, then I shot. He, in his F-18 reported that he had been locked. He dropeed flares, then turned 90' away from my position. Regardless, he was hit and exploded on impact.

The same test was tried with the more manouverable F-16, also. The same result was found.

My companion flew over me at low level. I fierd the Grail at the most aquward angle for a missile to fired at. With my own eyes, i saw the Grail Turn 90 Degrees and kill him. Also, while in a Cobra, i experienced a missile turn 90' and hit me, twice. I have also seen it do this in tail chase view.

It is not only the Grail itself that is overpowered, but the whole Anti Air kit.
The Anti Air kit consists of A knife, an assault rifle(M16, G3, AK-47, depending on the side), binoculars, Anti air weapon(1shot+2), Field dressing.(possibly a smoke granade, cannot remember. This may be exclusive to the Heavt AT only).

Forgive me for being realistic, but could you carry that much?
The Heavy AT comes with a knfie, a pistol(1+4 clips), Heavy AT weapon(SRAW, Eryx depending on team. Shots 1+1), binoculars, 1x smoke granade and a field dressing. The Fact that, to allow the carrier of the heavy AT to be mobile at all, they have issued him witha pistol because, realistcly, it would be far to heavy to carry one And on the the sake of gameplay, so he isnt very effetcive against Armour and INF. It gives more people incentive to think
"Well, that Blackhawk is messing us up near Mosque. All i got is a G3. Hang on, if i get the grail, i still get a G3 and i get three garenteed Blackhawk kills! SWEET!"

From what i have gathered from this link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SA-7#Development_History
, it seems that the Grail is quite short range. You may want to argue that 'Jets and Choppers in PR fly that low'. This is true, but this is the only way they can see targets. Also, distances in BF as a whole are not accurately protrayed. What is approximately 1meter, in BF is about 3Meters. In terms of scale, it is unbalanced as it has almost no distance limit. Few levels, in their entierity, cover the range of the grail anyway.

This too me, the Anti Air Kit seems a little unfair and unrealistic.
The Grail especaily is VERY overpowered and as i like to call it,
'The M4 of the Air'.

...mongol...

DOWN WITH THE GRAIL

[Dukemeister]

Originally Posted by SiN|ScarFace

Yes, but in the case of the sa-7 there is no radar to give any warning you are being looked at. Its pretty much point and shoot as the target flys by.

Thats all good and well, but i think some guy proved comprehensively that all manpads need some sort of radar to begin with, that means that there should be a tone before launch.

whatever happens, its buggy as hell.

[Mekstizzle]

I agree, AA kit is abit overpowered. Infact, alot of kits are. The Light AT kit also comes with an assault rifle. Too many kits come with assault rifles with ridiculously large number of magazines.

[SiN|ScarFace]

Originally Posted by DukeMeister

Thats all good and well, but i think some guy proved comprehensively that all manpads need some sort of radar to begin with, that means that there should be a tone before launch.

whatever happens, its buggy as hell.

No not all manpads need radar. Sa-7 grail is a man portable IR missile, no lock by radar, you point and shoot, NO TONE WHATSOEVER.

Just like a sidewinder AA missile, it does NOT require any sort of radar to fire. Thats the whole idea behind IR weapons, they don't HAVE to have radar to be used. Thus why helis, A-10s, soldiers can use IR missiles, point and shoot.

[Top_Cat_AxJnAt]

Originally Posted by Mekstizzle

The Light AT kit also comes with an assault rifle. Too many kits come with assault rifles with ridiculously large number of magazines.

BF2 is what you want then. No, seriously in reality 90% of front line soldiers have an assult rifle. And they carry, generaly, a minimum of 12 mags (sometimes 16/18 ).

IN pR you are raley get more than 8 mags - so niether greatly unrealistic or realistic - a good balance.

Ligth AT is superbly realistic - many many soldiers carry a AT weapon aswell as all their other kit, they dont wiegh huge ammounts really. I have seen pics (from Iraq) with soldiers carrying assultrifles + scope + M203 + frags + light AT weapons - overpowered or what!? So the alll the present kits are far from overpowered.

[Hawk_345]

I think the AT ingame is balanced, i do wish sometimes that when i hit a humvw with the Rpg is woulda ctually blow up, but still it seems like a good balance seeing heavy AT is suposed to do that.

[[R-MOD]Mongolian_dude]

So, they should not ignore flares.....
There should be a warning though, prior to the launch....is that right?

They Also TURN VERY VERY VERY SHARPLY.

They turn like a tracked viechle.....but at the speed of light. Thats 90's....thats silly.

...mongol...

[SiN|ScarFace]

Originally Posted by Mongolian_dude

So, they should not ignore flares.....

Flares should have a huge impact on the pk for the grail.

There should be a warning though, prior to the launch....is that right?

No there should NOT be a warning.

[masterofflama]

Originally Posted by Jedimushroom

The sa-7 is unable to lock onto little bird helicopters.

This was made in an attempt to nerf it and also because in real life there probably would not be enough heat from such a small heicopter's engine to lock on effectively.

You probably knew that but never mind.

besides, RPGs FTW!

ty, i was guessing why i can't shoot them down

[SGT.Collado]

There should be no warning, only it should be able to follow the flares and leave the area. Why do AA kits get 6 missles? If this keeps going, regardless if choppers are super duper machines, they will get shot down. I think the only thing that should be fixed for the Grail is for it to follow the flares and everything will be balanced.