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Old 10-20-2010, 06:14 PM   #41
[R-MOD]Jigsaw
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Default Re: Lack of INF squads?

In my humble opinion there should never be the possibility of having more than half a team in assets. So by that I mean if you total up all the crew spots available in APCs, Tanks, Aircraft etc it should come out to no more than 16 players.

This then leaves at least two full infantry squads plus a recon/mortar squad.

That being said, i've not spotted any lack if infantry in 0.95 tbh, although that's usually because i'm doing it myself. In fact some of my favourite rounds so far in the new version have been simply doing the dog soldier light infantry work that few will do regularly but can be truly rewarding, like storming a heavily defended MEC farmhouse with nothing more than an infantry squad and mortars to support us.


"I love the smell of napalm in the morning. You know, one time we had a hill bombed, for 12 hours. When it was all over, I walked up. We didn't find one of 'em, not one stinkin' dink body. The smell, you know that gasoline smell, the whole hill. Smelled like... victory. Someday this war's gonna end... "
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Old 10-20-2010, 08:51 PM   #42
talkinBEERmug

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Default Re: Lack of INF squads?

Let's just do the math here on a 4k map.

Commander = 1 Player
Sniper Team = 2 Players
3 Tanks = 6 players
2 APCs= 4 Players
1 AAV= 2 Players
2 Attack Choppers= 4 Players
1 Mortar Team= 4 Players
2 Transport Choppers= 2 Players
Total = 25 Players
Team Size = 31
Total Specialized Squad Players Negative Team Size = 6
This leaves 1 full 6 man infantry squad.
That's 6 people to defend a flag and assault the next flag.

My layout is a good layout for a 4k map, but when do you ever see only 3 tanks or 2 APCs leave main at the beginning of Kashan. This layout is also not accounting for oversized Mortar Team, the extra spotters in CAS squad, the other pilots in the transport squad, the second sniper, or for the people that make the countless other squads that are not needed.

I think this is why so many people are having problems with 4k maps coming to a stall because both the 1 infantry squads stay back to defend the flag, or how one team rolls the other team because the 1 infantry squad does not stay back to defend.

This is why I enjoy the 2k maps and insurgency more than the 4k maps. I really think that the Developers need to rethink the vehicle count on the 4k maps or do not make them respawn. The 4k maps feel more like vehicle warfare then AAS to me.


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Old 10-20-2010, 10:26 PM   #43
SSnake
Default Re: Lack of INF squads?

I agree that there's a lack of infantry on a lot of AAS maps, specially the 4km ones and I don't think it's only because of new version. With all the 4km maps and their usual high amount of vehicle spawns we'll be seeing less infantry combat from now on.
I think PR is a lot more fun when you don't have 3/4 of the team manning
assets so, in my humble opinion, reducing the total amount of assets in 4km maps would be nice or at least make the alternative layers with a very small number / 0 of heavy assets.
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Old 10-20-2010, 11:24 PM   #44
[T]waylay00

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Default Re: Lack of INF squads?

If only someone knew a way to have 128 players...
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Old 10-21-2010, 12:05 AM   #45
Lange

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Default Re: Lack of INF squads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by talkinBEERmug View Post
Let's just do the math here on a 4k map.

Commander = 1 Player
Sniper Team = 2 Players
3 Tanks = 6 players
2 APCs= 4 Players
1 AAV= 2 Players
2 Attack Choppers= 4 Players
1 Mortar Team= 4 Players
2 Transport Choppers= 2 Players
Total = 25 Players
Team Size = 31
Total Specialized Squad Players Negative Team Size = 6
This leaves 1 full 6 man infantry squad.
That's 6 people to defend a flag and assault the next flag.

My layout is a good layout for a 4k map, but when do you ever see only 3 tanks or 2 APCs leave main at the beginning of Kashan. This layout is also not accounting for oversized Mortar Team, the extra spotters in CAS squad, the other pilots in the transport squad, the second sniper, or for the people that make the countless other squads that are not needed.

I think this is why so many people are having problems with 4k maps coming to a stall because both the 1 infantry squads stay back to defend the flag, or how one team rolls the other team because the 1 infantry squad does not stay back to defend.

This is why I enjoy the 2k maps and insurgency more than the 4k maps. I really think that the Developers need to rethink the vehicle count on the 4k maps or do not make them respawn. The 4k maps feel more like vehicle warfare then AAS to me.
Have to disagree slightly with your player count but good points in the post. I'd like to look at this way

Full 64 player server typical 4 K map

Commander: lets forget that as not too common

2 apcs: 4 players

AAV:Um AAV would count for apc players and they aren't mixed only the USMC has AAV and there's like a total of 2 AAV and 1 LAV on Fallujah and just AAV's on Jabal and Muttrah so lets scratch that.

3 tanks 5 players

Trans chopper 2 pilots 2 players

Attack helo Jet 2 players (not usually 2 manned attack choppers at a time so i've seen it)

Total vehicle players: 13

Even with 1 or 2 additional vehicles of a tank apc or AA really should be max of 16 players and thats using quite a few vehicles. Which should leave at least 2 full inf squads and 4 extra players for sniping/commander mortar etc and whatever. I have to agree with Jigsaw there really is decent inf potential even on 4 k maps.

On most other maps like say ins you should see a lot of infantry lets look at typical Karbala:

1 LB(usually) 2 players

1 tank 1 Stryker 4 players(maybe 1 additional stryker 2 players)

6-8 vehicle

should be at least 20+ infantry on the map for insurgency in general and most AAS maps that aren't 4 k.

I personally haven't seen much lack of infantry in servers unless you discount mortar which basically should be inf.

Last point I do agree with how mortar squads being ran right now is a problem, really if you are a true mortar only squad it should be 4 men tops and that's a leader, medic 2 rifleman etc. If you mix inf and mortar it could be both but I think rule of thumb should be smaller mortar squads to free up more space for more direct infantry roles.

Also I noticed you guys always counting on both mortars being used by the mortar squads, and I think mortar squads should only take up 1 and leave the other to inf at a firebase in a temporary role or maybe another mortar squad etc(less ideal though again taking up too much space).

Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-MOD]Jigsaw View Post
In my humble opinion there should never be the possibility of having more than half a team in assets. So by that I mean if you total up all the crew spots available in APCs, Tanks, Aircraft etc it should come out to no more than 16 players.

This then leaves at least two full infantry squads plus a recon/mortar squad.

That being said, i've not spotted any lack if infantry in 0.95 tbh, although that's usually because i'm doing it myself. In fact some of my favourite rounds so far in the new version have been simply doing the dog soldier light infantry work that few will do regularly but can be truly rewarding, like storming a heavily defended MEC farmhouse with nothing more than an infantry squad and mortars to support us.
Nice points agreed as stated.


Quote:
Originally Posted by [T]waylay00 View Post
If only someone knew a way to have 128 players...
That would help a lot, but unfortunately at this point we can only plan and manage to make the game best as possible with 32 players per team. Maybe one day they can crack the code and make it so we can have more players but doubtful. We can be hopeful that PR 2 builds on these concepts with more players though.
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Old 10-21-2010, 01:45 AM   #46
talkinBEERmug

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Default Re: Lack of INF squads?

Sorry Lange, I should have said 4k AAS maps that I think are having problems with infantry. Example Kashan, Iron Eagle, Silent Eagle… I love the insurgent maps I think it has a much better feel then AAS game which the more I think about it is because of all the infantry, if you don’t have infantry on insurgent you don’t get caches. I do like to play AAS but only smaller maps with only APCs like Muttrah, Jabal... They have a lot better infantry fire fights.


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Old 10-21-2010, 04:28 AM   #47
maniac1031

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Default Re: Lack of INF squads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lange View Post
2 apcs: 4 players

AAV:Um AAV would count for apc players and they aren't mixed only the USMC has AAV and there's like a total of 2 AAV and 1 LAV on Fallujah and just AAV's on Jabal and Muttrah so lets scratch that.
an AAV is anti Anti Air Vehicle your talking about the AAVP7
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Old 10-21-2010, 04:31 AM   #48
Arnoldio
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Default Re: Lack of INF squads?

Maybe vehicles amoun and spawntimes should be relevant to RL ratio of asset per infantry, especially or 2k or less.

4k maps have more assets but still too much.
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Old 10-21-2010, 05:15 AM   #49
Heskey
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Default Re: Lack of INF squads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-MOD]Jigsaw View Post
In my humble opinion there should never be the possibility of having more than half a team in assets. So by that I mean if you total up all the crew spots available in APCs, Tanks, Aircraft etc it should come out to no more than 16 players.
I said this about 6 months ago, infact I think I even made a suggestion thread. Don't know what happened to it though.

My basic concept was that on the majority of maps (unless impractical, like Kashan), there would be no more than 16 vehicle positions available, meaning that at all times at least 16 infantry are on the ground.


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Old 10-21-2010, 05:42 AM   #50
manligheten
Default Re: Lack of INF squads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadTommy View Post
Lack of infantry has been an issue for years.. nothing new.
In 0.85 there were no problem. The main issue is that the combination of removing the rally and making the lmg spawnable have rendered inf sqauds quite weak and useless. Adding mortars and tons of assets hasn't helped. Like on Iron Eagle where u got like 6 tanks...
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Last edited by manligheten; 10-21-2010 at 05:54 AM..
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