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Old 08-31-2010, 11:37 AM   #11
joethepro36

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Default Re: Are insurgents too conventional?

Yes insurgents are far too conventional. This is due to the lack of mines and IEDs placed by the insurgent team. A skilled team can place so many mines in a map like fallujah that the armour cannot actually enter the city proper. This however takes a lot of time and patience coupled with the vulnerability of caches to infantry assault. I have often placed 50 or so mines a game and racked up a lot of kills but it's very dependent on luck as they are so visible. A solution to the lack of mines and their (true) power would be to implement sinkable mines. I find it absolutely ridiculous that mines can been seen from hundreds of metres with optics and abusing the terrain is the best way to use them.

IEDs are where the insurgents fall short mainly in my opinion. The reduction in sapper IED power was a good change but it means the insurgents lack a good source of remote detonated explosives to deal with vehicles. A simple increase in arty IEDs would suffice, maybe 3-4 a map would be good. If you worry this is too much think about the amount of times you've seen a successful arty IED and multiply that by 4.
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Old 08-31-2010, 11:48 AM   #12
Anderson29
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Default Re: Are insurgents too conventional?

Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-DEV]Jaymz View Post
^ WOW!

That's some creative gaming you've got going on, mate.

On topic. My main issue with insurgents/taliban is the fact that an AK wielding maniac can transform into a fully trained SAW gunner capable of hitting point targets out to 600m simply by pressing "g". It really kills the immersion of "Insurgency" when you take your squad into a cache area and start getting shot at by 2-3 SAW's.
im so glad there is a dev that thinks this^.

is it possible to make every kit instakill if picked up except the one requested?

now talk some since into them (other devs) and convince them that picking up dead soldiers kits are retarded. what if everyone had an epipen to simulate dragging, that way if ur medic gets whacked ur not completely screwed if picking up kits were disabled. that way you dont magically become a fully trained medic with the switch of a kit. someone can epipen him and get him to safety to in order to heal himself or everyone in the sqd donate their field dressing.

good idea^?


and make the stupid grappling hook limited to snipers or spotters...its ridiculous the things i see sqds do with it.
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Old 08-31-2010, 12:15 PM   #13
Jaymz
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Default Re: Are insurgents too conventional?

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Originally Posted by Anderson29 View Post
is it possible to make every kit instakill if picked up except the one requested?
It's possible, but not ideal. Ideally, we'd want an insurgent who picks up an M249 SAW to have terrible accuracy (not possible though).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anderson29 View Post
and make the stupid grappling hook limited to snipers or spotters...its ridiculous the things i see sqds do with it.
The grapple is more of a tool to overcome obstacles that a squad could scale irl, like a wall. Limits to how high it can reach might be in order though. So entire squads aren't getting onto roofs in a matter of seconds.

"Clear the battlefield and let me see, All the profit from our victory." - Greg Lake
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Old 08-31-2010, 12:17 PM   #14
dtacs
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Default Re: Are insurgents too conventional?

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Originally Posted by joethepro36 View Post
A simple increase in arty IEDs would suffice, maybe 3-4 a map would be good.
I'm quite confident that we're going to see more ArtyIED's spawn in the next version, hopefully they'll be added to Basrah and the like.

It simply wouldn't make sense not to update the Insurgent faction strength-wise as they are getting raped almost every round I play.
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Old 08-31-2010, 12:21 PM   #15
13DarkWolf

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Default Re: Are insurgents too conventional?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anderson29 View Post
im so glad there is a dev that thinks this^.

is it possible to make every kit instakill if picked up except the one requested?

now talk some since into them (other devs) and convince them that picking up dead soldiers kits are retarded. what if everyone had an epipen to simulate dragging, that way if ur medic gets whacked ur not completely screwed if picking up kits were disabled. that way you dont magically become a fully trained medic with the switch of a kit. someone can epipen him and get him to safety to in order to heal himself or everyone in the sqd donate their field dressing.

good idea^?


and make the stupid grappling hook limited to snipers or spotters...its ridiculous the things i see sqds do with it.
@Anderson, Giving everyone even 1 epipen sort of makes the medic kit redundant. I agree that its odd that an infantary soldier can pick up a kit an instantly be able to revive a downed teamate, but its better than giving everyone the capability to revive and also heal with a patch. I guess its having to get around the limits of vanilla BF2. In a sense the current system simulates how the "wounded" medic advises a teamate on how to heal him.
-I agree about the grappling hook though definitely.

Back to the point though, I think the insurgents are pretty unconventional if you look at the assets available to them and how they compare to Blufor teams, for instance, suicide vehicles and remote explosives (aside from C4) can be used by any insurgent player. I think with the new mortars, and obviously i don't know how they work, but if they are mobile, then that will really add an extra level of asymetrical warfare.

The main problem is the multitude of enemy kits that can be picked up, on Ramiel for instance, half way through the game, all insurgents can be carrying US kits.
It's not as if in reality insurgents wouldn't nab western kit, i've read 2 accounts, one from op Glacier, and the other op Anaconda where the taliban have been carrying British or US kit (almost like a trophy).

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Old 08-31-2010, 04:51 PM   #16
Gosu-Rizzle

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Default Re: Are insurgents too conventional?

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Originally Posted by Quikli View Post
Lol I have a confession to make.

I DO make my Sims join the military career, and I simulate their deployments by playing Project Reality. LOL.

So if I die in Project Reality, I either delete or kill the military sims that died in Project Reality.

The other day, one of my sims, Cale, he died from a truck bomb in Fallujah West.

His wife is now a widow and a single mother of two.

LOL. It makes video games REALLY fun if you integrate different games with each other.
Hahaha that litterly made me LOL. It really made my day

On the topic of mines/IEDs, i strongly feel we need more Arty IEDs. I like how the mines are quite easy to spot and the IEDs are hidden. That means you have to use the IEDs if you want to kill anyone other than blind nubs. (though there are many of them )
Using the IEDs take more patiance and more skill, since you cant just spam 50 of them all over the map and wait for the kills. (+ its SOOO much more revarding when you get to push the button and watch it blow up yourself )
That is alot better for gameplay IMO.
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Old 08-31-2010, 05:27 PM   #17
Anderson29
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Default Re: Are insurgents too conventional?

Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-DEV]Jaymz View Post
It's possible, but not ideal. Ideally, we'd want an insurgent who picks up an M249 SAW to have terrible accuracy (not possible though).
the only reason i suggest this drastic of a change is to get rid of the kit bug(wearing helmet and kit of enemy). if it was only the weapon getting picked up then i couldnt care less. and when enemy weapons are captured...like the at4 and the HAT or any u.s./ brit weapon for that matter, they shouldnt be able to reload it at an insurgent cashe....come on...



Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-DEV]Jaymz View Post
The grapple is more of a tool to overcome obstacles that a squad could scale irl, like a wall. Limits to how high it can reach might be in order though. So entire squads aren't getting onto roofs in a matter of seconds.
thats what im getting at...whats the point of even having obstacles then. no one is opening the locked gates anymore...they just grapple over the wall...cuz its quieter. the way we trained to get over walls was "you get a vehicle to park next to it. a person pulls security from a top the vehicle. 1 by 1 the sqd gets over. tell me that cant be done ingame...it also defeats the purpose of setting up a good defense and its damn near impossible to climb rope with 60-100 lbs of gear attached to you...if the rope could only be thrown 10 feet in the air and slow the climb rate down...then i could live with that.....
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Last edited by Anderson29; 08-31-2010 at 05:33 PM..
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Old 08-31-2010, 06:11 PM   #18
Jaymz
Retired PR Developer
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Default Re: Are insurgents too conventional?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anderson29 View Post
the only reason i suggest this drastic of a change is to get rid of the kit bug(wearing helmet and kit of enemy). if it was only the weapon getting picked up then i couldnt care less. and when enemy weapons are captured...like the at4 and the HAT or any u.s./ brit weapon for that matter, they shouldnt be able to reload it at an insurgent cashe....come on...
Problem with the way the ammo system works. It's team specific, not weapon specific as we would like.

"Clear the battlefield and let me see, All the profit from our victory." - Greg Lake
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Old 08-31-2010, 06:21 PM   #19
Arnoldio
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Default Re: Are insurgents too conventional?

Talibans are much more better portrayed as talibans as insurgents are portrayed as insurgents in PR.

insurgents should have completely different tactics as they do now ( acting same as conventional forces), like dropping kit behind the corner, walk around unarmed, enemies come closer, go back to the kit, kill them, run away etc., slowly kill blufor one at a time, stall them so to speak.

But i have no solution sadly.
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Old 09-01-2010, 10:09 AM   #20
quaazi
Default Re: Are insurgents too conventional?

My 2 cents on the subject.

Firstly, decrease the distance of enemy troops to ins hideouts that disables the hideout spawns. I don't like how hideouts follow the same rules as FOBs like that. Especially seeing as most ins maps are city maps, where there might be blocks of distance between an enemy squad and a hideout, with the former completely unaware of the latter, but still somehow managing to neutralize it. Abundance of spawn points can nicely represent the difficulties convenctional forces have seeking out insurgents. If ins can only spawn and channel in from their main base and one hideout somewhere near the cache, as it almost always devolves into, it becomes way too easy for the US team to pinpoint the general course of the ins deployement - where they come from, where the hotspots are and so forth. Indeed, ins should be about stealth, ambush and everything. I mean, in the end, why would a squad, behind a 4 meter wall, 25 meters away from an insurgent hideout (which seems to operate as a tunnel, does it not?), magically stop insurgents coming from there.

Also, for the love of god, do not remove the ability of ins to pick up blufor kits. It adds a very good layer to the game, namely that when blufor screws up, there are consequences beyond losing just a ticket. Of course, in an ideal world, an ins picking up a blufor kit should just replace his main weapon, not also pick up complicated weapons systems of an engineer/whatever, and a restrainer for pete's sake.

One other issue regards the maps and the engine itself, so it's not very likely to be changed, but good to be discussed nonetheless. Now, in citymaps, how many buildings are actually accessible? I mean, apart from the apartment complexes everyone knows by heart and a few small, one-room buildings, there are actually very few buildings to seek cover in, fire upon enemies from and so forth. Urban combat should be a NIGHTMARE of epic proportions, not just running from garden to garden. Should blufor decide to move into a city, they should be in deep shit, paranoid about every building, every nook and cranny. Again, it's a matter of providing insurgency with more options to combat the bigass guns of blufor.

Essentialy, all changes should boil down to this - give blufor more firepower and mobility (that is, give them the assets needed to blow ins skyhigh and get out of there when the jobs done, something that the blufor already has really), and give insurgency more flexibility and stealth (which is, allow them to blend in with the environment, (dis)engage at will, and the resources to hurt the enemy while doing it), while reducing they staying power to make sure that whenever they're drawn into a standard convenctional skirmish, they get slaughtered. Make ins rely on brains, not brawn, and make blufor rely on fancy assets, co-ordination and sheer firepower.
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