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Old 04-20-2010, 02:34 AM   #31
Sirex[SWE][MoW]
Default Re: What are assault rifles zeroed in at?

Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-COM]BloodBane611 View Post
Do you have some data that makes clear that the Tavor is in fact more accurate? If so I'm sure we'd all be interested. However, your argument that "it's the newest, therefore the greatest" is not connected to reality by even the thinnest thread.


Facts or walk plz
Yes i have the facts i have already posted. Also the point here isn't to prove that Tavor is a better weapon, shich we KNOW it is. My point was that you guys have no source or claim to make it compearelable to the m4 in bullet drop. The burden of proof is on your part, not mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Th3Exiled View Post
Make up your mind! Are you talking about accuracy or bullet drop? You constantly go on about it having worse accuracy in-game, and how it should have better accuracy than an m16. However, when gazzthompson pointed out no one commented about the tar-21 having worse accuracy you shot him down on premises of bad reading. In fact the very basis of your argument, the qoute from motherdear, is indeed commenting on bullet drop and not accuracy.
I was always talking about bullet drop, if you can't understand that you have not read through the thread, it was very clearly that i cited a dev that said Tavor had bullet drop at 150 meter. Yes it is about bulletdrop, it has always been about bullet drop, goddamn people read the whole thread. A Dev had posted about that Travor had worse bulletdrop. It is you guys that changed the discsusion from Tavor ingame bulletdrop towards Tavor vs m16. Not me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Th3Exiled View Post
Take extra note of the bold part. What that means is he could be wrong. Though I can't say with certainty, but from memory, all assault rifles use the same gravity coefficient (in-game), therefore they all drop the same distance over a same amount of time, hence at a certain range the only factor that changes the amount of drop between weapons is the velocity of the round (pr doesn't model drag). Since pr uses realistic muzzle velocities for each gun, it follows that the amount of drop over a certain distance is indeed different.
That is true in real life too. The only possible way for a weapon with a higher muzzle velocity to have more drop is if it's drag is also higher and thus it's velocity becomes lower at some point. However since pr doesn't model drag in its ballistics, the horizontal component velocity remains constant and hence is the same as muzzle velocity (at least when fired parallel to the ground).
Okay now you guys is being sincible. Why didn't you guys start to talk about how it works in game with the bulletdrop right away? That was my problem, instead all of you went hillbilly fanboys about the m16 and derailed the discusion. My proplem was with the bulletdrop.

"Why is Tavor counted as a worse accuracy weapon then m16 when Tavor is like state of the art vs m16 that is old as shit in comparison? A bullpup should not equal short barrel."
This is what i posted first, that is what was relevant, but everyone got a tear in their eyes when someone even applies that m16 isn't gods own assaultrifle handed down by god himself to USA. You guys have derailed this thread, i wanted to talk about bulletdrop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Th3Exiled View Post
I'll point out now that just because something feels comfortable doesn't mean gravity won't affect it the same way, so all this talk about ergonomics is pointless.
Also, barrel length does play a role in this area (bullet drop), since the increased length of the barrel can increase the velocity of the round (as the expanding gas has a longer duration to act on the bullet), and as pointed out before, higher velocity means less drop.
No, better or diffrent ammuntion makes more difference then barrel length will ever do. I feel as i am repeating myself here. It is a bullpup design it doesn't loose nearly as much barrle length then for example m4 and shouldn't be grouped with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Th3Exiled View Post
In essence, gravity doesn't care how old the design of your gun is, all masses tend towards the center of gravity at the same rate. (provided they are the same distance from said center. Also, net acceleration would be different when considering the effects of air resistance.) The only factor is the time of flight.
Yes and?
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Old 04-20-2010, 02:40 AM   #32
Teek
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Default Re: What are assault rifles zeroed in at?

Oh and one more thing that is clearly causing a problem here, a rifles zero does not equal accuracy , And is not related to barrel length, it is possible to zero a glock pistol to 100m and a SVD to 25m, comprende?

P.S. The TAR is cool, but dosnt kill people as well as a old as shit M1 garand. Coolness =/= leathality


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Old 04-20-2010, 02:47 AM   #33
Sirex[SWE][MoW]
Default Re: What are assault rifles zeroed in at?

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Originally Posted by Teek View Post
Oh and one more thing that is clearly causing a problem here, a rifles zero does not equal accuracy , And is not related to barrel length, it is possible to zero a glock pistol to 100m and a SVD to 25m, comprende?
I hope you are not talking to me, i got 11 month military traning i know this, but thanks that you pointed it out to the other posters!

In fact if you look at my first post i give detail about how this works with trajectorys. Maybe you "missed" that?
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Old 04-20-2010, 02:49 AM   #34
Teek
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Default Re: What are assault rifles zeroed in at?

Bullet drop isn't the topic of the thread or the current argument, for the sake of everyone sanity please refrian from mentioning it for the 100th time. Any rifle could have the same effective bullet drop when fireing the same ammo if you zero it


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Old 04-20-2010, 02:51 AM   #35
Sirex[SWE][MoW]
Default Re: What are assault rifles zeroed in at?

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Originally Posted by Teek View Post
Bullet drop isn't the topic of the thread or the current argument, for the sake of everyone sanity please refrian from mentioning it for the 100th time
I know bullet drop is not the topic, but it is the center of dicusion now.
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Old 04-20-2010, 03:05 AM   #36
Teek
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Default Re: What are assault rifles zeroed in at?

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Originally Posted by Sirex[SWE][MoW] View Post
I know bullet drop is not the topic, but it is the center of dicusion now.
I should clarify, rifle zeroing and how bullet flight physics was th discussion until you came in and compained about the erogornomic supiriority and bullpup design was not properly modeled after a top of the head recollection (not a stated fact) from a contributing developer Conflicted with you view that anything new must be good


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Old 04-20-2010, 03:13 AM   #37
gazzthompson

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Default Re: What are assault rifles zeroed in at?

I dont really need to say much as everyone else already has, after all this offtopicness ive yet to see You (sirex) post one fact stating the TAR is more accurate than the m16 other than its new;

Teek sums it up for me pretty well:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teek View Post
I see no data or sources to support your claims, Sirex, just a marketing blurb which could be applied to EVERY SINGLE GUN designed in the last 5 years. You also quoted a few lines from that marketing material touting the advantages of Red Dot optics, which any modern firearm could mount, making it exactly the same.
So i say again, why is the C.T.A.R more accurate than the m16a4? You made the claim, now back it up with some sources more than "its a new weapon".


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Old 04-20-2010, 03:29 AM   #38
RHYS4190

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Default Re: What are assault rifles zeroed in at?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gazzthompson View Post
I dont really need to say much as everyone else already has, after all this offtopicness ive yet to see You (sirex) post one fact stating the TAR is more accurate than the m16 other than its new;

Teek sums it up for me pretty well:



So i say again, why is the C.T.A.R more accurate than the m16a4? You made the claim, now back it up with some sources more than "its a new weapon".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirex[SWE][MoW] View Post
I know bullet drop is not the topic, but it is the center of dicusion now.
who gives a shit,
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Old 04-20-2010, 03:30 AM   #39
Th3Exiled
Default Re: What are assault rifles zeroed in at?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Th3Exiled View Post
In essence, gravity doesn't care how old the design of your gun is, all masses tend towards the center of gravity at the same rate. (provided they are the same distance from said center. Also, net acceleration would be different when considering the effects of air resistance.) The only factor is the time of flight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirex[SWE][MoW] View Post
Yes and?
The point is, it doesn't matter if it is a new gun or an old gun. The only thing that matters is the time of flight. Time of flight is dependent on two things;
1. distance to target
2. average velocity
From what I've read, the m16 has a slightly higher muzzle velocity than the TAR21. Since there is no drag in game, the average velocity is the same as the muzzle velocity. That's why the TAR21 has more drop than the m16, however, it wouldn't be so pronounce; You'd probably never even notice.

I feel this whole argument is coming from a general misunderstanding of how the bullet drop system works which has been made worse by an oversimplified explanation.
The weapons are not zeroed, the whole these weapons are zeroed for 300 while these ones are zeroed for 150 is just an oversimplification that means that some weapons just drop more due to their lower times of flight.
It's really just a game of Chinese whispers to be honest, it has circulated around so much everyone has a different idea of how it works. Simply because motherdear was a dev, you took his word as truth, even though he himself expressed he wasn't certain of it himself; this point I tried to put forward, however perhaps I should have put more emphasis on it.
I can tell you now with confidence, that the TAR21 wouldn't have as much drop as you'd think. It fires a relatively light round, and the difference between it and the m16's muzzle velocity isn't much different, which, if i'm not mistaken, perhaps has the highest muzzle velocities of the rifles depicted in game. Guns with heavier rounds such as the g3, typically would have lower velocities and thus more drop.(of course this all depends on how much energy the gun uses to accelerate the round, it would take a fair bit more energy to accelerate a 7.62x54R round to 900ms^-1 than it would for the 5.56 nato round)

At no point am I saying that the TAR21 is a bad gun or inferior to the m16 in any way. All I'm pointing out is that the notion that the TAR21 is being misrepresented in game is no more true than can be said for any other gun.

Btw, I'll have you know I did read the whole thread, how else would I quote what you were referring to if I hadn't. I'm quite sure this would be true for gazz as well.

At this point I shall emphasis that you shouldn't be taking anything I write as some form of personal attack. I'd much prefer it if we could settle such things in a civil manner, remember that misunderstandings can happen, I believe it would be better to just give each other the benefit of the doubt than resorting to smart remarks.

With that said, I wish to apologize for some things I posted, reading over them again, I can see that they may be taken as arrogant or otherwise. It wasn't my intention to start an argument or cause any negative feelings, I can only attribute this to bad habits I've unknowingly picked up from my time in school.

Exiled.
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Old 04-20-2010, 03:41 AM   #40
themartini

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Default Re: What are assault rifles zeroed in at?

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Originally Posted by Sirex[SWE][MoW] View Post
I know bullet drop is not the topic, but it is the center of dicusion now.
sounds like a textbook case of off topic to me...
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Originally Posted by 'Sirex SWE MoW
hillbilly fanboys
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Originally Posted by 'Sirex SWE MoW
reading problems
maybe steer away from these if you want to continue the "discussion"

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