High ping players = Server lag?

NyteMyre · 02-18-2010, 11:59 AM

Yesterday on the UKWF server, we had quite a laggy round. At the same time, there was another player that had a ping of 400.
Several people started to call for admins to kick this player because: "He was causing the lag".

This fired up a discussion between people who taught this was true and people who people taught this was a myth.
One of the hilarious quotes:

Doing some Googling, I found this thread with some explanation.

And I think this one covers it best:

It is indeed a myth on the Battlefield series of engines. The basic problem revolves around how to maintain a sane game world in many clients connected to one server over links of varying latencies.

The Battlefield series of engines does this by making clients connected with high latencies disadvantaged in that the server trusts its view of the world at all times. A client says 'i just shot in this direction' and the server checks if the shots hit something, and applies damage if so. Unfortunately if the client is out of date (because of a slow link) then the player from the server's point of view will be shooting where the target was not where he is.

Battlefield 2 half-arsedly introduced a constant offset into this system, set at 100ms for everyone, by which the server offsets all your commands backwards in time. This works great if your ping is 100ms, and generally makes things 100ms less annoying if not. This is the value the toolbox alters when you launch the game; using your actual ping to the server instead of the constant 100ms.

Half-life (and all associated engines: q2, q3a, hl2, hl, etc) do something entirely different: the server and clients agree on a shared, latency-adjusted idea of time. Each client timestamps their commands ('i shot over there at 1:31pm and 23.2 seconds') and the server then rolls back its view of the world to that time and sees if it the shots hit. In this way, people with high latency get a better game experience at the expense of those with lower latency. Those low pingers can now be well away from a confrontation when the server decides that the high pinger did, actually, kill you. Then you drop dead, seemingly at random. That's why half-life players hate those with low pings (it causes really weird shit and nasty gameplay). The meme has spread to Battlefield and other game engines where it simply does not apply.
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[R-DEV]AfterDune · 02-18-2010, 12:06 PM

You don't lag servers if your ping is high. If the person's ping is high enough, his movement will appear lagging. Like he's here at first, but one second later he's suddenly 20 meters away, without you seeing him walking there. Because the pings are so different, you don't see all his movement. It sort of catches up from time to time. He on the other hand, will experience everybody else like that, which is far more annoying.

Cassius · 02-18-2010, 12:22 PM

So playing with a ping of around 120 on off continent servers I do actually alright.

galeknight1 · 02-18-2010, 12:27 PM

I find it extremely annoying when I'm told to get off a server because I'm 'lagging it'. Even though I have a constant ping of over 300 on euro servers, even after I'm kicked I've been told it hasn't solved anything. I'd like admins to know that kicking people for pings don't help...

[R-DEV]Thermis · 02-18-2010, 01:17 PM

Far as I know its impossible for one single player to lag a server. Though it will piss you off if you try to shoot him because he'll skip along as previously explained. Thats why some servers have a high ping kick rule.

ma21212 · 02-18-2010, 01:20 PM

you cant shoot a high ping player yes, but its even more annoying when you have high ping.

[R-CON]Tim270 · 02-18-2010, 01:40 PM

Yeah its a big mig myth when it comes to BF2...

system · 02-19-2010, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galeknight1

I find it extremely annoying when I'm told to get off a server because I'm 'lagging it'. Even though I have a constant ping of over 300 on euro servers, even after I'm kicked I've been told it hasn't solved anything. I'd like admins to know that kicking people for pings don't help...

You're right, you wouldn't be lagging the server BUT 300 ping is quite high, I'm afraid. I think (and most would probably agree with me) that anything under 150 is acceptable, but should be in the 0-60 range.

Although I have to admit that BF2 is a lot more lenient compared to other games such as Counter-Strike (where 150 ping gives you an INCREDIBLE disadvantage).

hiberNative · 02-19-2010, 02:38 AM

mw2 will make people even more confused about this ;P

JAKKATASUNT · 02-19-2010, 02:50 AM

:P

Take it to the Fact or myth people. (Not sure if i got the name right, haven't seen in a long time.)

02-18-2010, 11:59 AM	#1
NyteMyre Join Date: Aug 2008 Netherlands Location: Leiden Posts: 2,153	High ping players = Server lag? Yesterday on the UKWF server, we had quite a laggy round. At the same time, there was another player that had a ping of 400. Several people started to call for admins to kick this player because: "He was causing the lag". This fired up a discussion between people who taught this was true and people who people taught this was a myth. One of the hilarious quotes: Doing some Googling, I found this thread with some explanation. And I think this one covers it best: It is indeed a myth on the Battlefield series of engines. The basic problem revolves around how to maintain a sane game world in many clients connected to one server over links of varying latencies. The Battlefield series of engines does this by making clients connected with high latencies disadvantaged in that the server trusts its view of the world at all times. A client says 'i just shot in this direction' and the server checks if the shots hit something, and applies damage if so. Unfortunately if the client is out of date (because of a slow link) then the player from the server's point of view will be shooting where the target was not where he is. Battlefield 2 half-arsedly introduced a constant offset into this system, set at 100ms for everyone, by which the server offsets all your commands backwards in time. This works great if your ping is 100ms, and generally makes things 100ms less annoying if not. This is the value the toolbox alters when you launch the game; using your actual ping to the server instead of the constant 100ms. Half-life (and all associated engines: q2, q3a, hl2, hl, etc) do something entirely different: the server and clients agree on a shared, latency-adjusted idea of time. Each client timestamps their commands ('i shot over there at 1:31pm and 23.2 seconds') and the server then rolls back its view of the world to that time and sees if it the shots hit. In this way, people with high latency get a better game experience at the expense of those with lower latency. Those low pingers can now be well away from a confrontation when the server decides that the high pinger did, actually, kill you. Then you drop dead, seemingly at random. That's why half-life players hate those with low pings (it causes really weird shit and nasty gameplay). The meme has spread to Battlefield and other game engines where it simply does not apply. Reply With Quote
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02-18-2010, 12:06 PM	#2
[R-DEV]AfterDune PR Developer Join Date: Feb 2007 Netherlands Posts: 9,883 Blog Entries: 8	Re: High ping players = Server lag? You don't lag servers if your ping is high. If the person's ping is high enough, his movement will appear lagging. Like he's here at first, but one second later he's suddenly 20 meters away, without you seeing him walking there. Because the pings are so different, you don't see all his movement. It sort of catches up from time to time. He on the other hand, will experience everybody else like that, which is far more annoying.
	To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

02-18-2010, 12:22 PM	#3
Cassius Join Date: Apr 2008 Italy Location: Cologne Germany Posts: 2,832	Re: High ping players = Server lag? So playing with a ping of around 120 on off continent servers I do actually alright.

02-18-2010, 12:27 PM	#4
galeknight1 Join Date: Aug 2009 New zealand Posts: 255	Re: High ping players = Server lag? I find it extremely annoying when I'm told to get off a server because I'm 'lagging it'. Even though I have a constant ping of over 300 on euro servers, even after I'm kicked I've been told it hasn't solved anything. I'd like admins to know that kicking people for pings don't help...
galeknight1 Join Date: Aug 2009 New zealand Posts: 255

02-18-2010, 01:17 PM	#5
[R-DEV]Thermis PR:BF2 Developer Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Kansas Posts: 1,437	Re: High ping players = Server lag? Far as I know its impossible for one single player to lag a server. Though it will piss you off if you try to shoot him because he'll skip along as previously explained. Thats why some servers have a high ping kick rule.
	To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. DM Clan Leader & Recruitment Officer "Even if the world doesn't end in 2012 you won't go to college because your an idiot" -Colonelcool To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

02-18-2010, 01:20 PM	#6
ma21212 Join Date: Nov 2007 Cambodia Posts: 1,731	Re: High ping players = Server lag? you cant shoot a high ping player yes, but its even more annoying when you have high ping.
ma21212 Join Date: Nov 2007 Cambodia Posts: 1,731	To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

02-18-2010, 01:40 PM	#7
[R-CON]Tim270 PR:BF2 Contributor Join Date: Feb 2009 United Kingdom Posts: 3,079	Re: High ping players = Server lag? Yeah its a big mig myth when it comes to BF2...

02-19-2010, 02:38 AM	#9
hiberNative Join Date: Aug 2008 Sweden Location: Sodertalje Posts: 5,392	Re: High ping players = Server lag? mw2 will make people even more confused about this ;P
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02-19-2010, 02:50 AM	#10
JAKKATASUNT Join Date: Jan 2010 New zealand Location: Waikato Posts: 39	Re: High ping players = Server lag? :P Take it to the Fact or myth people. (Not sure if i got the name right, haven't seen in a long time.)

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