Funny Uses Of The Collaborator

[mat552]

Originally Posted by badmojo420

Almost all of those would end up with you getting punished for killing a collaborator.

You would do well to remember that if you shoot a collaborator, he doesn't HAVE to heal himself. Bleeding out and dying is the same as killing him.

With good aim, I can knock between 25-30% (estimated) of their health off. I ask you, would you be willing to wait the time it takes to bleed out? Think about the effects, the coughing, the annoying red overlay. If you've ever bled out from nearly perfect health, it is one of the worst things that can happen in PR. Agonizingly long wait, annoying sounds, just missing the excruciating pain of being shot and the fear of what happens after you die to replicate dying in real life. I have never met someone who would do that in a game purely out of spite.

The difference is now, I'm shooting to shoo away an annoyance, not to put another body in the ground. Legs and arms, not chest and face. Also, I'm sorry if anyone's feelings got hurt because of remarks I'm made. Really though, any player who's pretending to pray in a game is probably not trying to pay any ounce of respect to the intended deity. No harm, no foul.

[badmojo420]

Originally Posted by mat552

With good aim, I can knock between 25-30% (estimated) of their health off. I ask you, would you be willing to wait the time it takes to bleed out? Think about the effects, the coughing, the annoying red overlay. If you've ever bled out from nearly perfect health, it is one of the worst things that can happen in PR. Agonizingly long wait, annoying sounds, just missing the excruciating pain of being shot and the fear of what happens after you die to replicate dying in real life. I have never met someone who would do that in a game purely out of spite.

It's not really spite that drives me to do it, rather it's enforcing the ROE on those careless enough to fire at a civilian.

[Gossy*AUS*]

Civi walls are great fun, just walk towards the intended target and watch them flail about in confusion about what the hell they should do about the RPG guys behind your sqaud... it does end up in you being Martyred a few times, but just get your fellow civis to stand infront of you while someone heals you and start again.

[Arnoldio]

Originally Posted by Northwest Fresh

You don't die immediately anymore. BUT, you can be killed for helping the insurgency and won't be martyred.

Best "pointless pursuit" as a civi is when you start with a weaponed kit, and drop it. This way, you have more stamina than a real civilian. You can outrun even the dumbest, ballsiest Marines -- leading them into a wall of Allah's lead.

You dont get the gadgets tho

[[R-MOD]Spec]

Originally Posted by [R-COM]BloodBane611

Err, you realize that part of the point of the collaborator kit is its usefulness as a human shield? This is not an exploit.

I disagree. We all know about the big problems with penalties for killing civilians.

Too harsh and they'll be so suicidal that all coalition players will complain and say it's no fun and especially not realistic.

Not harsh enough and all civilian players will complain that they get shot on sight with no real consequences for the killer.

That can only be countered by using the kit how - at least I think - it was originally meant to be used. As a scout kit, someone who can safely move around on the battlefield without fearing to get shot. And as bait for arrest-happy squads who will follow the civilian into an ambush. And to make the coalition watch their fire - that basically means that even an armed insurgent might have a higher chance of not being shot on sight because the coalition fear a civi kill more than a lost kill on an insurgent. As a result, this should, in theory, create a generally insurgent-friendly combat environment without feeling "gamey".

We all know that doesn't really work, but using the kill penalties (or the lack thereof) to the maximum advantage has led to the penalties being changed to the other extreme often enough in the past... 0.6 was really nice for the civilians. But they used it to MAKE the coalition shoot them. Then it was changed so the coalition wasn't screwed when shooting civilians - now they just shot on sight though. The current system is somewhere in the middle, which isn't bad. But I'd be careful with how to use the kit. Maybe exploits isn't the right word. I don't mean it as in cheating. But I mean it as in using the system to ones advantage - which is the point of a game somehow, yes. But... Well, you get my point.

[sparks50]

I guess the realistic thing to do would for the insurgents to seek civilians to hide behind them, not for the civilians to seek the insurgents to act as some sort of voluntary human shield.

But again, this is only PR, its not too realistic because of all the limitations and punishments needed to force pubbies to play in a way that sort of replicates reality. You just cant win them all and many compromises will have to be made.

[naykon]

Originally Posted by Spec_Operator

I disagree. We all know about the big problems with penalties for killing civilians.

Real life insurgents exploit this all the time in Afghanistan... why not in PR?

[boilerrat]

Originally Posted by Spec_Operator

I disagree. We all know about the big problems with penalties for killing civilians.

Too harsh and they'll be so suicidal that all coalition players will complain and say it's no fun and especially not realistic.

Not harsh enough and all civilian players will complain that they get shot on sight with no real consequences for the killer.

That can only be countered by using the kit how - at least I think - it was originally meant to be used. As a scout kit, someone who can safely move around on the battlefield without fearing to get shot. And as bait for arrest-happy squads who will follow the civilian into an ambush. And to make the coalition watch their fire - that basically means that even an armed insurgent might have a higher chance of not being shot on sight because the coalition fear a civi kill more than a lost kill on an insurgent. As a result, this should, in theory, create a generally insurgent-friendly combat environment without feeling "gamey".

We all know that doesn't really work, but using the kill penalties (or the lack thereof) to the maximum advantage has led to the penalties being changed to the other extreme often enough in the past... 0.6 was really nice for the civilians. But they used it to MAKE the coalition shoot them. Then it was changed so the coalition wasn't screwed when shooting civilians - now they just shot on sight though. The current system is somewhere in the middle, which isn't bad. But I'd be careful with how to use the kit. Maybe exploits isn't the right word. I don't mean it as in cheating. But I mean it as in using the system to ones advantage - which is the point of a game somehow, yes. But... Well, you get my point.

Before .9 being a civi was suicidal and a waste of time... I never wanted to play them until this patch

[[R-MOD]Spec]

I played much more back around the time of 0.6 than now. What I remember is back then, you'd try to get shot as civilian. For example by selecting the shovel and lying down - looked somewhat like a gun from a distance. Due to the harsh punishment, and especially the low respawn time for the civilian after being killed, that worked. Result was the change of punishment that made the civilian unenjoyable.

Yes, now in 0.9 it's better again, I'd just be careful not to do the same thing as in 0.6. If a civilian is used as shield now or then or blocks a road, no problem. But if the only thing they do is jumping in the line of fire or in front of vehicles... It will probably only get worse. The enemy will adapt and just shoot on sight as usual.

Real life insurgents exploit this all the time in Afghanistan... why not in PR?

I stated the reasons above. To avoid later exploits AGAINST the civilian. I hated when they were run over because it was not punishable. Now it is - great! I just don't want to lose that because people do what the Devs invented the riding over thingy for - civilians who jump in front of cars so the driver gets punished.

Some of the things in the first post don't hurt gameplay at all. Such as watching the enemy and making him chase you. Stuff that does not involve your death will likely not influence the punishments and ROE.

I guess the realistic thing to do would for the insurgents to seek civilians to hide behind them, not for the civilians to seek the insurgents to act as some sort of voluntary human shield.

And that does work in a more general context. If the civilians generally 'behave' and are not seen as direct threats by the coalition, chances are the insurgents will have less of a problem walking around. Coalition will see someone in the distance and will want to first confirm the target before opening fire. That's not really as good as having a flesh shield, but it does help. Also, having civilians nearby also helps against explosives. Especially in buildings. Again creating a insurgent-friendly battlefield without feeling too gamey from the coalitions point of view. And especially without leaving "kill them all" as only option for them.

[killonsight95]

there should defo be a puinishment for TKing civis this would stop all the standing on the IED's etc.