Why fix something not broken -muttrah

[[R-DEV]Rhino]

Originally Posted by DeltaFart

whining 3/4 of your post won't fix it, infact you'll get less attention because of it

indeed, Mutherpucker etc, if your just going to say "its shit, I get killed and its shit", I can't help you without explaining the problems in details, like how they are managing to kill you which is gay, like how are they managing to get to the docks so fast etc.

Originally Posted by Sidewinder Zulu

I wasn't aware that Muttrah had undergone any modification.
All your problems seem connected to the actions of players, and therefore can't really be changed by the DEVs...
Eventually, people will learn how to do things differently.
I was really bad at flying the Chinook when I first jumped in, but after a fair amount of practice I can pilot it effectively now and have survived several combat situations in it.

Time heals all wounds.

And why are you so uspet? Your country is hosting the Olympic Games!
Be happy!

The map hasn't undergone any real changes, but the "gameplayobjects" which is vehicle spawns etc has been changed quite a bit afaik, fuzz wanted to try something different from my normal setup, I aint really looked at what he's done other than have the cobra spawn only when the docks is capped and not having it respawn with also 2 attack Hueys on delayed spawn, no idea what he's changed for MEC etc.

Yes they are the action of the players but giving them the tools to be able to carry out thous actions is anouther thing

Originally Posted by darkside12

I see where Mutherpucker is coming from. I just got done with a round on Muttrah, and we (USMC) lost 338-0. Why? Because we were run over by jeeps, and the 2 hueys doing trans were shot down...ON THE FIRST DROP. We managed to get a FOB up, but then a BTR comes and joins the MEC fight, and we didn't stand a chance. I don't think I'm ever going to play another round on Muttrah City again because of how fast the MEC not only get to the docks, but get to them and over take them. I didn't get a kill until I grabbed a sniper kit and had the huey drop me in the mountains, where I somehow managed to stay alive the rest of the match.

So your saying the MEC are getting jeeps and APCs at the start of the round which there power on there own with transporting troops in fast and heavy firepower with the APC is overrunning any light defences at docks?

[Sirex[SWE][MoW]]

Question, must the Americans go docs first? I mean the map time is normally over 3 hours, think outside the box, set up a firebase somewhere else or take some roof tops in the north city then move to docks or send a ninja squad later on when the MEC team goes against you.

[bloodthirsty_viking]

i played a round as the mec, and it was an epic battle, but the americans managed to cap the docks only becuase my idot teamates stole all the supply trucks, but i eventually got set up with a fob on the ship at the docs, and we had attack huey strikes hit us, cobra hit us, apc;s hit us, a heuty evan landed on the landing pad next to the tow.... but still, we got set up there, and we held the off for most of the natch, i mean they could have moved to the next flag, but the rest of the team set up a line of def so the americans could not leave docks, and they had to take our the fob becuase of the forces that were fighting, 1.5 hours of fighting, they droped a j-dam on us, and then then won the match, but had we gotten tere erlier, the americans would not have made it to the docks =/

[Mutherpucker]

It was the game I was on! See, I was the huey pilot, and, even if you guys will tell me learn to fly and blablabla, look, I know, for a fact, I'm a fair pilot, I've been flying those huey and blackhawk since The first desert combat release back to Battlefield 1... I'm not saying I'm the best, but last release, I was able to keep my huey for the whole round

Yea darkside, it's amazing how MEC team run over the docks, amazing.. don't you feel the balance is gone now? Maybe, those new flag position ain't that bad after all, but those jeep? no, sorry... ain't good, You did the opposite of what I expected the devs to do, balance it and put more actions in it

New flags works, faster boats works, but jeep and little armored transport (not btr) don't

I don't know, every time I've played, MEC won, every single time, and most of time, when I was MEC, I was waiting in north city, and when I was US, I was just trying to get in docks, or north city... I dunno, and I know for a fact that HOG muttrah 24/7 was a server where A LOT of players where playing all the time, not only was it in the top servers, but A LOT of players where almost only playing this map on that server, cuz every time I was playing there, they where there

I dunno, I think =HOG= Muttrah 24/7 players are the ones to ask about muttrah

I understand what devs wanted in the first place, they had a vision, and It worked! But now, you need to look out what you do if you want people to stick in, because, even if I'm not a big lost in here, I am 1 player lost... how many people will just quit and forget about pr just because you tried to fix something not broken?

Look, I take time to give feedback, I take time to think and rethink what I post, and I take time to share my opinion... but, I really don't think I'm gonna stick around for long..

Anyway, all that just to say fixing thing not broken is a really risky thing, fixing a working map is more dangerous than creating a new "not good" map... Cuz those guys which where your supporters will just be pissed off and quit

[Sidewinder Zulu]

Originally Posted by Sirex[SWE][MoW]

Question, must the Americans go docs first? I mean the map time is normally over 3 hours, think outside the box, set up a firebase somewhere else or take some roof tops in the north city then move to docks or send a ninja squad later on when the MEC team goes against you.

I haven't seen that happen, but what I have seen (on public servers, no less) is a well-coordinated USMC team with a commander take docks and North City, and then just build Firebases and dig in. They don't advance further.

Meanwhile, the MEC team keeps throwing infantry and BTRs against strong American defenses, and the Cobra hangs back behind the hills, bombarding West City with hellfires, and safe from AA since it's over friendly territory.

It goes against the "Attack! Everyone Attack!!111!!!" mentality that most PR Squadleaders seem to have, but it's a very effective strategy. Sometime when I'm commander on Muttrah I'll check and see if I can get it to work, too.

In military terms, I believe it's called an "Attack from a defensive position."

/ semi-derail of thread

[Mutherpucker]

I'm sorry, I'm calm now, the frustration is gone now

1. faster boat: works
2. New flags positions: works, least bottleneck and stalling
3. Jeep and armored vehicles: doesn't work, that's the problem
4. More FOB=More AA.. I wonder what will the real impact be... It might not be as obvious as it sound.. maybe transport will have to coordonate more with cobra and on ground troops... then again, I think there is a realistic limits on how much coordination can be pulled out of this game with his working mechanism and engine hardcoded limits.

[Mutherpucker]

Maybe if we had a temporary spawn point on docks.... THEN AGAIN, the big fun in this map was that big heli drop...

I stand my point, jeep and new armored vehicle need to go

[Sidewinder Zulu]

IMO, I think part of the problem is the lack of good air assets in the initial US landings.

In a real amphibious assault of the type seen in Muttrah City, the USMC would have many dozens of helicopters providing CASEVAC and CAS along the docks and further into the city.
Obviously, we can't do that, but I think having the Cobra spawn with the Attack Huey's at the start would be a good idea.
Before you yell "OMG the chopperz would rapez everyone", we should remember how often the Cobra used to die in Muttrah City. I saw one airborne for over 10 minutes only once, on a Mumble server with good communication and a good Cobra crew.

As for the attack Hueys, unless the pilot can get about 5 or 6 Hydras directly onto the BTR, it's gonna keep rolling. And if the BTR sees the Huey first, the helicopter has absolutely no chance of survival. Ten rounds from the AP cannon on the BTR will bring down the Hydra Huey, easy.
So, the only real effective anti-armor support the US has besides their APCs is the Cobra, and as it is that doesn't spawn until the US has Docks.
A handful of outnumbered American FAVs and two quite weak attack helicopters are going up against powerful MEC armor and a whole host of infantry and emplaced AT and AA psoitions.
The US really needs to start with more of a "punch", IMO. It seems very obvious why it would be hard for the Marines to make it into the city, given the odds against them and their lack of heavy support.

[[R-DEV]Rhino]

Originally Posted by Sidewinder Zulu

Before you yell "OMG the chopperz would rapez everyone", we should remember how often the Cobra used to die in Muttrah City.

Ye, but your talking about shoving the Cobra in there before the MEC has got any AA up and are all coming out of the same place and heading in pretty much the same direction.

[Mutherpucker]

It was good before! That's my point! those new vehicle just make people rape the docks for 1, and make people lazy, by not taking care of transport trucks

You want to put something new in muttrah? Bring the btr downed to 2, and put a TANK in there... that's right, a nice big fat tank in mec side, to balanced those faster boat

And even then, it won't be as balanced as it was... it was balanced before, it was!