Why no inter-squad teamwork?

[Lucke189]

Originally Posted by killonsight95

RT mumble is crap because everyone is in the same channel and you can hear the enemy which is why i never play on that server TG is much better

I like RT just because it has only one channel. Although I understand why people would prefer two channels, I think one channel is more fun.
For example - Yesterday in Lashkar Valley I held a Taliban hostage (he had dropped his kit for some reason) and threatened to kill him if he didn't tell me were their cache was, but he said he didn't know anything (All lies of course, haha) and then my SL killed my new friend for no reason.

In the same way it's great for civilians on normal insurgency maps to be able to speak with the BLUFOR, just like in real life.

It isn't necessary, but it's fun. Also, when we usually call Mumble silence when sneaking up on enemies, so I don't see how it's a problem.

[KeksTerror]

I do not like some of the changes too, but I would like to take part in the discussion:

I will describe you a situation (e.g. on Muttrah City): you try to attack an objective and the enemy's defence is so strong that you can not assault. Your APC'S (Armored PERSONAL CARRIERS) shoul NORMALLY pick you up or try to provide some defence. But: in Project Reality are also a lot of guys who do not know how it works in the reality... They take the APC's and try to shoot as much as enemy infantry as possible (or enemy BTR's) - ok, but usually they do not provide any backup.

Another example in terms of the limited rally points:
Your teams firebase(s) are the most important spawn points. If there is a firebase placed on a tactically poor location you could perhaps loose the round. It happen often since I started with 0.9 at Saturday!

The Dev-Team tried to improve the gameplay with those and other changes, the shaking screen when you are running (which causes headache after ~20 min playing 0.9), limited Rally Points and more futuristic looking weapons (e.g. IDF), the balance on Azad Khal is totally destroyed, the main battle on the map now takes place infront of the IDF mainbase...

Oh. And I forgot the dropped kits. When someone dies and his kit lies on the ground, you can not see which weapon he got. It makes everything a bit more complicated!

When I came home yesterday, it was the first time that I did not like to play PR.

I am very sad about the 'Design', it reminds me of Windows Vista with Aero or something like that. I can not play some maps because the lags are so strong that before you can aim on an enemy you are dead.

I am really very very sad!

[mati140]

Originally Posted by Zi8

That's why our server regulars/admins have been Commanders mostly in insurgency maps and made the whole US team move as a one big team. If squads go solo or stupid == kick/ban and suddenly people are interested in working together and there has been some really epic rounds.

I also lead a group of 18 men yesterday in Gaza Beach with Mumble + had a tank squad in sl channel... pure madness all the round apart from the times caches were very hard to find from the city area

I completely agree with that. Only Red Army discipline and Mumble can save the teamwork. On each server there MUST be two designed Commanders (for 24/7 servers about 6-8 from different timezones so it will be possible to keep command round the clock), one for each team, with possiblity of imediately kicking players. They should order squads that are going stupid, kick SL if he don't execute order and ask same question to next SL. They also shold kick all people that will go alone or without squad assigment.

Another thing is with Mumble - it won't integrate squads if people won't be forced to join Mumble server when joining game server. The only way to force them is to... integrate PR Mumble application with PR exe, like battlecommo is. Yes, that sounds a bit incredible but I belive it's possible. And dedicated server ap. need to be integrated with PR Murmur. Just imagine...
1. All people are joining mumble server automaticaly when joining game server.
2. People are automaticaly joining SL radio channel when becoming SLs.
3. Voice activation is forced.
...what can u see? If u say sth via radio, people close to u can hear u without radio, like in real live when you're talking by phone person next to u can hear your words. When u want to talk to ANYONE ingame, stand next to him and just talk. Can u imagine how much realistic would it be? But I'm worried that it's only a far future. However [R-DEV] and BSS should think about talking with Mumble developers about cooperation in doing this, bc I think that those are only ways to save teamwork in PR, except for going back in PR's evolution.

But there is still problem how to force server admins in forcing TW. However, it's easy to solve - just cancel licence for admins not doing this or don't give them licence for next PR version. Out

[Meza82]

Q: Why no inter-squad teamwork?
A: Not enough players use Mumble. With Mumble, inter-squad is 100x easier and more effective.

the other day on the TG server me and 2 other infantry squads on Korengal made a massive 18 player "rifle and special weapons platoon". We marched across the whole map wasting entire Taliban cells by everwhelming them with lots of firepower, destryong caches along the way.

the point is: GET MUMBLE

[myles]

Originally Posted by BlackFallout

ALSO there are NO training servers anymore. So all these people who might have gone to a training server to figure out how things work have to do that INGAME with us.

Ye im with you aswell bring back the trainning servers it solves alot of problems

[gazzthompson]

Training = coop.

Originally Posted by killonsight95

RT mumble is crap because everyone is in the same channel and you can hear the enemy which is why i never play on that server TG is much better

both unrealistic, both different. but thats for another thread.

Originally Posted by offmason

Who cares what people say in the servers? Perhaps if I was part of a development team that actually cared about the players at large, instead of just a few fan-boys on beta servers that wouldn't stop playing even if soldiers started to wear rainbow camouflage, perhaps I would care about what PR players in general have to say -- especially when there is a drastic change in game play.

Forums. Game servers = playing, forums = discussion. Game servers are filled with players who wont like PR but are just playing to try it out, new version and all, they will leave. If they want input in the mod they should register, how could the DEVs realistically monitor whats being said on various game servers? even if they could, who would be assed when they have a active forums (which is moderated instead of on game servers where comments are normally limited to "THIS IS SHIT!").

also this team had no problem sticking together:

http://i50.tinypic.com/2lvz1pz.jpg

Teamwork = successful team.
No teamwork = fail team.
Mod about teamwork = first option.

[badmojo420]

Thanks for all the responses guys. Even if some of them went WAY off topic.

I regret saying anything about the new patch. This thread is about PR in general. I saw this happening a lot before the patch and ever since I started playing PR. In my opinion the new changes to the rally system will help with inter-squad teamwork. But, it's too early to judge.

Yes, mumble is great, and servers that enforce it like RT and TG and the others, are the bees knees and all. But, the whole PR community can't get on those 3 servers. And since we're from all over the world, a lot of people won't have a decent ping to all of them. And then there's the people like me who prefer to spend all their time playing the insurgency game mode, which is not possible on the few servers who enforce mumble and teamwork.

Originally Posted by Bringerof_D

sometimes when the communication just isnt possible or friendly squads wont listen or say STFU, instead of trying, i just adapt to what their doing and use it to my advantage. so instead of asking him to flank the other side, i see he's going straight, i'll organize a flank from the other side in my squad.

I like this idea, and wish more people would adopt it.

Originally Posted by offmason

badmojo420, what do you think?

Back in .8, as a SL I would commonly leave my rally near the rally of another able squad. I believed that strength in numbers was a good strategy. I would usually try to group up with other squads on the map and provide them support by following or covering their flank. With the new patch, if you help out another squad in a fire fight... you may very well have to experience the inconvenience of walking for years. Hence, I rather go my own way -- because some squads attract fire more than others. I don't feel like helping - because my squad-mates will pay the price; ie: exercising their internet legs.

I came here in response to the OP's question. I gave my opinion.
I believe that inter-squad cooperation took a hit with the new rally system.

I've already said above that I believe the new rally system has improved inter-squad teamwork. But, it's too early to judge for sure. But, I disagree with your comments about having to walk forever if you decide to work with another squad. If you are working with another squad, you've now got two medics at your disposal. And 6 additional guns to defend your position and watch for contacts. In theory you should die less, which means less walking from a spawn.

Originally Posted by Zi8

That's why our server regulars/admins have been Commanders mostly in insurgency maps and made the whole US team move as a one big team. If squads go solo or stupid == kick/ban and suddenly people are interested in working together and there has been some really epic rounds.

Sounds amazing, what server is this?

--------

I want to comment a bit more on mumble. It's a great tool. But I don't think the lack of mumble should be used as an excuse for no inter-squad teamwork. Because, often on mumble rich games you'll see squads inter-mingling, so it ends up being a mass group of people, with a few officers barking orders at the crowd. Not exactly what i would call inter-squad teamwork. But it works.

And also, the people who generally use mumble on those teamwork enforced servers, were already making use of inter-squad teamwork before mumble came around. Perhaps the segregation of those team players into specific servers is hurting the quality of the other servers. So, in fact it's not mumble that is causing the inter-squad teamwork, it's just that all those players who see value in that type of teamwork, are mostly drawn to those servers. I dunno, i'm just thinking out loud here.

What I dream of seeing in PR, is inter-squad teamwork, without the need to always be RIGHT next to the other squad. It wouldn't be very difficult for a SL to type out in chat "Sq2 will wait here for sq3 to get into position before we assault the flag." or just "Sq3 this is sq2, we'll cover your western flank" or even "SQ3 come to our position, our medic is down, we need your support" This type of inter-squad teamwork would go a long way in the world of PR.

I suspect a large part of the reason this not happening is due to the tendency to RUSH through everything in PR.(or almost any video game) You spawn, and RUN to regroup with your squad, or your squad regroups and RUNS to the objective. Or someone goes down, and while the medic is attempting to revive and heal the squad just RUNS away to prevent other casualties. It doesn't always happen this way, but with pub squads in pub servers, it happens way too much for my liking. And with such high time limits, there really is no reason to rush.

There is also the issue with having 32 players who think they're all commanders. Who think they know best what the team needs to do. I'm as guilty as anyone in this regard, and it leads to a lot of arguing over team chat, which also has the effect of drowning out any legit team chat, not to mention takes everyones attention away from what they're doing and focuses it on some text at the top of your screen. The only solution i can see, is for commanders to be present during every game and be more forceful with their orders. Which would also mean the server admins enforcing the commanders authority.

I could go on and on about this topic. But, I'll leave it at that for now.

[Gunners87]

Mainly because most squads in the game are incompetent. It would be real interesting if there was a study conducted.
But I tend to notice that its usually one squad on each side which makes the biggest contributions (usually a VoIP squad)

[anglomanii]

i see a lot of value in what your saying mojo, i just can only think the game needs to be tweaked a little more as time goes by, ie: objectives in AAS not appearing untill the one before is captured, and the commander not having to be in the command tent all the time, and being rewarded a little more with more commander only deployable assests.
things like that might releive the commander bordom.
it might also help if commanders could create and name squads so this helps reflect his objectives and plans.

[Exterior]

maybe it is possible to have a squad leader comm.. like how all squads can talk to commander, make one for just squad leaders too? i