Why no inter-squad teamwork?

[gazzthompson]

I misread what you said and edited.

[offmason]

badmojo420, what do you think?

Back in .8, as a SL I would commonly leave my rally near the rally of another able squad. I believed that strength in numbers was a good strategy. I would usually try to group up with other squads on the map and provide them support by following or covering their flank. With the new patch, if you help out another squad in a fire fight... you may very well have to experience the inconvenience of walking for years. Hence, I rather go my own way -- because some squads attract fire more than others. I don't feel like helping - because my squad-mates will pay the price; ie: exercising their internet legs.

Originally Posted by gazzthompson

to be frank, who cares what people say in the servers? come post here if they dislike the effect. be part of the community and talk with the devs. they couldnt be assed to oppose it during the beta so thats there problem.

Theres a reason why the forums have feedback threads, devs cant monitor the servers.

Who cares what people say in the servers? Perhaps if I was part of a development team that actually cared about the players at large, instead of just a few fan-boys on beta servers that wouldn't stop playing even if soldiers started to wear rainbow camouflage, perhaps I would care about what PR players in general have to say -- especially when there is a drastic change in game play.

The point is, PR is arguably going to continue on. However, I just do not think this recent patch has retained the quality of game play in past builds. From what I've seen, many... many agree.

I came here in response to the OP's question. I gave my opinion.
I believe that inter-squad cooperation took a hit with the new rally system.

[SCE_BloodyStars]

Personally I think the new rally system has boosted the teamwork ingame to a much higher level than before. That being said I think that topic is a little to hot right now and isn't for this thread.

The way I see it is, your always going to get alot of n00bers with the release of a new build. The problem here lies in getting these n00bers to understand how the game works and the way it is ment to be played. Yes training servers helped me learn how to fly and drive, but that was about it, once in an actual server you have to learn as you go. The responsibility of teaching and making sure these new guys follow the rules lies directly in the hands of the admins, I think. Too many times have I gone into a server and complained about one squad just constantly wasting tickets and assets trying to do something on the other side of the map, and gotten the response of, "Well their not really breaking any rules so we can't do anything." One problem used to be that it was really hard to admin a PR server because the admin really couldn't be there to see what was going on. What could have been a swift kick to the butt turns into a globalchat arguement and a gameplay meltdown of massive proportions. With .9 now out and the specator mode in use I think the admins need to take some time out of gaming themselves and invest it into admining the server for a while, atleast untill all the n00bers have been properly trained and theres not as many of them. As far as mumble goes.. I think it should be a damn requirement for everyone playing the game. I don't know how I survived PR without mumble but the diffrence in inter-squad work DRASTICALLY changes between those people in mumble, and the "mumbleless."

[Nuts!]

I've seen the new system in action, and it definitely makes things tougher if you're not prepared. Wait a month, tho, and youll probly see some change - SLs and SMs being more cautious, better use of transports, more ambush teams to nix the transports, etc.

In the end, it's too early to tell for sure, but in my opinion as an SL leading moderately smart groups the new system makes things better. Without an easy respawn, people are a lot less likely to risk their virtual necks, they call for medic and they finally wait before giving up. Theres plenty of 1337 players being asshats, but they'd be there anyway and the new system keeps them from wasting tickets so easy (at least till the helis and jets spawn).

So yeah, it's got problems for sure, but people will probly learn to deal with them like they learned to deal with RPs in the first place. Try giving it some time before calling for the old RPs again.

[Zi8]

Originally Posted by Shaihuluid

yeah, it is a real problem. Mumble has been flaunted around as the "answer", but I'm really not much of a fan. what pubbies really need is a competant commander who's not only willing to place arty fire, but organize platoon-level movement. probably unrealistic, but you can't expect squad leaders to have both a good tactical sense of their position while doing serious inter-squad strategizing.

That's why our server regulars/admins have been Commanders mostly in insurgency maps and made the whole US team move as a one big team. If squads go solo or stupid == kick/ban and suddenly people are interested in working together and there has been some really epic rounds.

I also lead a group of 18 men yesterday in Gaza Beach with Mumble + had a tank squad in sl channel... pure madness all the round apart from the times caches were very hard to find from the city area

[SCE_BloodyStars]

Originally Posted by Zi8

That's why our server regulars/admins have been Commanders mostly in insurgency maps and made the whole US team move as a one big team. If squads go solo or stupid == kick/ban and suddenly people are interested in working together and there has been some really epic rounds.

I also lead a group of 18 men yesterday in Gaza Beach with Mumble + had tank squad in sl channell... pure madness all the round apart from the times caches were very hard to find from the city area

Mumble is definatly the lifesaver of a crumbling team It's simple to use and not that big of a hassle.

[space]

In some ways mumble is a better version of the commander with some other nice features on top. If you're on a "mumble-less server", then go commander! ( Even better - go commander on a mumble server! )

I realise that half the team will often ignore you, but you soon find out which squads they are, so you just concentrate on the squads that are willing to listen. Its great when you see the squads respond to your markers, and your teams fortunes are turned around. The UAV and area attacks are very useful too.

[CodeRedFox]

Originally Posted by offmason

Perhaps if I was part of a development team that actually cared about the players at large, instead of just a few fan-boys on beta servers

Please, that's why your NOT part of the dev team. We don't make PR for the masses, we don't want to play with the masses. The unwashed masses are what bring games down to crap. That's what Vbf2 is for..the masses. And the new system work great for us and those that we like to play with seems to agree.

If majority ruled or we listened to the masses over the fan's most things that separate PR from your mass-friendly games, wouldn't be here.

But PR is never final, nothing stays untouched, not until the last DEV will it be final. We come up with and idea, test it with the testers team, hit it up with some beat testers and if all goes well we release. And for us the beta went well. Then we step back and let the tard and noob dust settle for a few weeks or months and then look at the how, when and why's and then re-evaluate where to go from there.

[snooggums]

Originally Posted by offmason

Who cares what people say in the servers? Perhaps if I was part of a development team that actually cared about the players at large, instead of just a few fan-boys on beta servers that wouldn't stop playing even if soldiers started to wear rainbow camouflage, perhaps I would care about what PR players in general have to say -- especially when there is a drastic change in game play.

When TG went through the beta changes there was a hue backlash of opinions such as yours from TG members and regulars as we went through the no rallies at all/limited rallies/one crate FoB changes. Many, many good players thought the rally removal would end PR, and it took a good 3 weeks before most payers were on board. I'm not sure if any of them want to go back now that we have limited rallies to regroup once and more and easier to build FoB's for defense.

Of course, only a few were as negative as you about the players that liked the changes. Maybe that is why you are getting such direct responses to your comments, sticking to the changes and not attacking those that disagree would probably go far.

I love the changes to limit rallies, and I really hated the no rally at all initial test.

[Cassius]

Originally Posted by Psyrus

^^^ This is the problem. And even when you do go commander, they just say STFU

Wrong server, there are a handfull of servers who do appreciate teamwork. Players looking for a good experience need to become regulars on a server so they are among likeminded people.
Players who just want to "shoot stuff" will deploy to any server with a free spot.