COLLABORATOR clarification

[[FC]Freddie]

Quick question on the collaborator:

"Civilians may be run over with a vehicle or shot while using vehicles, ladders or ropes without any penalty or bonus. There is also no penalty for shooting them if they used a weapon, vehicle or their medical equipment in the last 60 seconds."

I see no mention of throwing rocks, is that included as "weapon" or not?

[GoreZiad]

It's much easier not to shoot them. Saves you some effort and makes the game experience better for everyone. I really hope the DEVs will rework the punish system.

"You have shot an unarmed player, you will be arrested in . . ." to really drive it home.

[snooggums]

There is also the possibility that they fired a rifle from another kit and then switched in the last 60 seconds, kit switching is not mentioned in your quote.

[[R-MOD]Spec]

To answer the question: From all I know, the rock is not a weapon.

[burghUK]

When thrown it becomes a missile and the definition of a missile is... an object or weapon for throwing, hurling, or shooting, as a stone, bullet, or arrow.

If they have a rock out , shoot them.

[Silly_Savage]

My previous post from these threads:

I'll try my best:

1. Rocks do not count as a weapon, even if they throw them at you. You cannot be engaged as a civilian without the offender suffering penalties.

2. If you select a weapon, even without firing it, you are a target. You can be engaged as a civilian without the offender suffering penalties.

3. If you get on any ladder, or a grapple, you are a valid target. You can be engaged as a civilian without the offender suffering penalties. I believe the grapple is considered a "vehicle", which means that you can continue to be engaged 60 seconds after "getting out" of it. Although the ladder is not considered a "vehicle", you can still be killed while on it without the offender suffering any penalties. However, because it is not considered a "vehicle", once you get off of it, you, as a civilian, cannot be killed without the offender suffering penalties.

4. Binoculars do not count as a weapon, even if you are looking through them. You cannot be engaged as a civilian without the offender suffering penalties.

5. Cell phones do not count as a weapon. You cannot be engaged as a civilian without the offender suffering penalties.

6. As stated earlier, I believe the grapple is considered a "vehicle". Thus, you can be engaged as a civilian without the offender suffering any penalties. This includes the time you are on it and 60 seconds after getting off as well. If you merely have the grapple selected, this does not count as "entering a vehicle". You cannot be engaged as a civilian without the offender suffering penalties.

7. I do not believe you can engage civilians with explosives if they are outside the ROE without suffering the penalties. You cannot be engaged as a civilian without the offender suffering penalties.

8. It all depends on the state in which you die. If you bleed out while you're still within the ROE, then there are no penalties for the offender. However, if you bleed out while outside of the ROE, then I believe there are penalties for the offender.

I'll try and be a bit more concise. The only times you can be engaged as a civilian without the offender suffering any penalties is when you, as a civilian: enter a vehicle/ladder/grapple (see #3 for more details), select/use/pickup any kind of weapon* (see above for items not considered "weapons"), get ran over by a vehicle, select/use any medical equipment* (medic bag/epipens), or are arrested (restrainer/shot with a shotgun using slugs).

* The same rules from the grappling hook apply to the medical equipment and weapons. That is, once you are done using them and switch items, you are still able to be engaged as a civilian without the offender suffering penalties 60 seconds after using them.

** If you pick up a different kit with a weapon in it, you are no longer considered a civilian and can be shot without the offender suffering the repercussions. If you switch to back to the civilian kit after having picked up another kit with a weapon, you must wait 60 seconds before you are deemed a "civilian". In those 60 seconds, you are within the ROE and can be killed without penalties.

I hope this answered some of your questions.

[GoreZiad]

Come on devs, all those rules aren't good for the casual "shoot it all" players. Rework it. It evolves into rumors, stating that no matter what the civy holds in his hands, he can be shot.

Only good thing about the class as it is now, is that no one plays it, so you can stand out as a better teamplayer than the whole god damn team.

[snooggums]

I agree, they could be very easily simplified.

Valid for ROE within one minute after changing kits or getting out of a vehicle.
Valid for ROE if within 30m of another insurgent or cache, and one minute thereafter.

Gets rids of human shields, allows for engaging them during all of the actions the current rules do (such as while healing another insurgent, gunning for a technical) other than self healing which should not allow them to be shot anyway and in a clear, easy to explain manner.

[[FC]Freddie]

Nice clarification Savage - thanks. I'll post that in our forums, it will really help

@Gore, I think one of the main reasons few play the class is the respawn penalty. I know it makes me think twice about using it.

My original question however was to clarify some of the details so I can use it more. As a SL having height is a great asset to insurgents and the class comes with the essential hook.

("Maybe" the devs will drop the spawn penalty a tad given the struggles with the class in recent updates.)

[RELEASE_THE_KRAKEN]

Basically with the current system, shoot them. 8 times out of 10 you wont get punished, and they'll be stuck behind a 2 min spawn penalty for trying to help their team...