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Old 08-07-2009, 01:48 PM   #11
mat552

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Default Re: The unrealistic elements of flag objectives.

CnC Rounds do generally devolve into who can turtle the best with 4 firebases, even with all of the big assets out to play. It's a fantastic idea, and there was a suggestion for improving it about a commander purchasing and holding in reserve items with tickets, I can't find it right now, but it holds a lot of promise as an alternative to flag based gameplay.

Players might be hardcoded, but that sure doesn't seem to stop anybody from trying.

PR is now about the team at all costs. The costs that the individual pays are too great, and it's crushing anybody left who tries to shoulder the burden. Look at us. Look at what they make you give.
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Old 08-07-2009, 01:59 PM   #12
Shaihuluid

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Default Re: The unrealistic elements of flag objectives.

It might be interesting to try having a gamemode where a teams commander has the option to select several "team objectives" from among a list of potential objectives already set on the map, and then dealing with them as regular objectives once gameplay begins. This would give a balanced degree of realism (commander assigns objectives) while at the same time ensuring that a game does not become totally unfair. Of course, it might be tricky devising rules to ensure that a team does not simply choose objectives that are closest to their base!
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Old 08-07-2009, 01:59 PM   #13
[R-DEV]Gore
PR:BF2 Developer
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Default Re: The unrealistic elements of flag objectives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreedoNeverShot View Post
In my opinion there should be more strategic value to the flags. Rather than taking random hills for no reason, you should take bunker complexes (for defense advantage), AA bunkers (for spawned AA), Heliports (for extra copters), Depots (for vehicles and ammo supply), Bridges (for transport), and things like that. Rather than taking flags for the sake of taking flags, you should take flags for their strategic value.
Agree. In previous versions you could cap for example an airfield and then you'd get planes. Zatar iirc. Apart from old BF2 maps this should be heavily implemented.


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Old 08-07-2009, 02:00 PM   #14
Poi_Medic

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Default Re: The unrealistic elements of flag objectives.

CnC is probly the best objective based gameplay we can get. Other than insurgency mode which is search and destroy. CnC is almost the same, except its a fortified position you are finding. So its best to patrol an area and then plan an attack. I like CnC mode better than AAS3

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Old 08-07-2009, 02:14 PM   #15
GreedoNeverShot

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Default Re: The unrealistic elements of flag objectives.

I miss extraction mode...

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Old 08-07-2009, 02:18 PM   #16
Sirex[SWE][MoW]
Default Re: The unrealistic elements of flag objectives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-DEV]fuzzhead View Post
Short response for now: most of dev team dont like flags either... its a hold over from vbf2 and hard to change mentality of BF2 (and PR) playerbase, but yea new things are being thought of and AAS is definitely not considered the best game mode, just what we have atm.
Good thing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreedoNeverShot View Post
What would cause people to even leave the base? You could fortify an area and sit there forever, while racking up points. There is no incentive to attack, or gain ground. Flag markers cause people to attack, take loses, think, take risks, maneuver, flank, divide forces, and adapt to different situations.

In my opinion there should be more strategic value to the flags. Rather than taking random hills, for no reason, you should take bunker complexes (for defense advantage), AA bunkers (for spawned AA), Heliports (for extra copters), Depots (for vehicles and ammo supply), Bridges (for transport), and things like that. Rather than taking flags for the sake of taking flags, you should take flags for their strategic value.
Yes the point is why does the bunker need to be a flag? If the commander for that team wants the bunker then he can issue an attack command to some squad, but just taking it for the hell of it/forced by arbitrary flags? I don't like that. Like i tried to flank in an AAS map but had my whole squad whining because i didn't suicide the magic flag like the rest of the squad.

I want instead to give the commander the decision what on the map is vital and what is not. Also making places spawn vehicles in map seems a little arcade really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mat552 View Post
CnC Rounds do generally devolve into who can turtle the best with 4 firebases, even with all of the big assets out to play. It's a fantastic idea, and there was a suggestion for improving it about a commander purchasing and holding in reserve items with tickets, I can't find it right now, but it holds a lot of promise as an alternative to flag based gameplay.
Yes i can understand the problem, but this must be an easy fix if you think about it, i can hardly imagine that gamey tactics kills of the whole concept.

What i can see we have two problems:
1. People don't know where to go.
2. People like camping and killing attackers.

Solutions:
1. Active commanders and squad leaders and a final goal, with C&C we kind of lose that short of base rape. I think this is a gamer mentally block. Because as of right now controlling the routes from the enemy main means that the enemy will lose vehicle support and that should be enough of a reason to attack adn to cooperate to defend main.

2. This is also something which is a player mentally block. Attackers if they want have the imitative in that they can coordinate tanks/air to kill of firebases or isolate them, also i personally believe that shortening the artillery wait time by half would instant solve this problem, since artillery with that wait time is only really usable on a defensive cluster. Using it on oncoming attackers or random would still be a waste of munitions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaihuluid View Post
It might be interesting to try having a gamemode where a teams commander has the option to select several "team objectives" from among a list of potential objectives already set on the map, and then dealing with them as regular objectives once gameplay begins. This would give a balanced degree of realism (commander assigns objectives) while at the same time ensuring that a game does not become totally unfair. Of course, it might be tricky devising rules to ensure that a team does not simply choose objectives that are closest to their base!
This should be AASv4. A good roadbumb in to getting a prober C&C.
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Old 08-07-2009, 02:39 PM   #17
Poi_Medic

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Default Re: The unrealistic elements of flag objectives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreedoNeverShot View Post
I miss extraction mode...
I too miss extraction mode

Playing Since PR.3
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Old 08-07-2009, 04:04 PM   #18
flem615
Default Re: The unrealistic elements of flag objectives.

i think that removing the flags is, in theory, a good idea. but the teams have to have some sort of objective/task to complete. if you just have a map with no objectives, then nothing happens. its a good idea but needs to be very thought out. and if they do find a way, there needs to be playable betas to see how the community likes it.

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Old 08-07-2009, 11:14 PM   #19
gaurd502
Default Re: The unrealistic elements of flag objectives.

Sounds interesting to me. I like it.
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Old 08-08-2009, 12:50 AM   #20
[R-DEV]Rudd
PR:BF2 Developer
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Default Re: The unrealistic elements of flag objectives.

Flags are good imo because they center teh small number of players on the map in to a confrontation sooner or later.

But large cap radii can be used to allow you to have BOTH the centering ability to ensure you actually have fun (i.e. finding and then using tactics to engage the enemy) AND have strategic freedom to move around an area.


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