The lack of strategy features in PR

[IAJTHOMAS]

I agree with the ticket loss/gain (its the same thing in effect).

I have concerns about linking vehicles spawns too heavily with flags as it will mean that the more sucessful teams merely get even stronger if standard spawns are linked to flags to a large extent.

However, what may be good is if, for certain flags, the first time a team secures that flag they get a non-respawnable 'bonus' asset. If this could be used with different tickets loss weightings for different flags it could lead to some interesting possibilities/choices:

e.g. do we try to get the flag that cause the 20 ticket loss to the enemy, or attempt to get the flag that only causes 5/10 but gives a [insert asset here].

Edit:

Originally Posted by [R-DEV]Rhino

This topic is really much more of a game mode issue rather than a map/mapping issue.

Mainly, but some maps have seemingly arbitrary CPs, its not entirely the same issue but it adds to the lack of reasons to attack. Why stop defending hill x to attack hill y when you have to expend tickets to do so and you end up in a similar defensive position.

[[R-DEV]Rhino]

Originally Posted by IAJTHOMAS

Mainly, but some maps have seemingly arbitrary CPs, its not entirely the same issue but it adds to the lack of reasons to attack. Why stop defending hill x to attack hill y when you have to expend tickets to do so and you end up in a similar defensive position.

Ye but that is also mainly down to gamemodes with AAS v3 (random flags), we wouldn't have funny flag names and odd locations if it wasn't for random flags

[[R-MOD]Mongolian_dude]

Originally Posted by [R-DEV]Rhino

This topic is really much more of a game mode issue rather than a map/mapping issue.

Aye, truth be told.
What I failed to convey though, was the concept of a more CnC-style freedom brought to the to flag system. Its just the way maps are composed, the region, the terrain, the assets that will lead to what the game mode is decided....I hope

I explained it much better on the PRT forums, Iirc

...mongol...

[burghUK]

Theenemy should lose tickets for losing a flag and when its held for a certain amount of time.

[Orthas]

I completely agree that something has to be done to correct this issue. What I fail to see though is why can't this be solved easily by simply putting a bleed on all (or almost all in case of symmetrical map) maps? That would also make the battles end at some point logical. The bleeds shouldn't be much of course so as not to make battles too fast or k/d irrelevant. But if it's like 1 ticket/minute, it will be seen. It will give edge to the side who fought to capture the swamp or whatever.

Now unfortunately the bleeds are mainly used to end matches which have already ended. I also fully support the idea of using vehicles as incentives where it's logical but the reintroduction of bleeds should be very easy as quick fix. Then think about logical flags, asset spawns and advantageous ground later.

[J.Burton[EEF]]

Originally Posted by Dr2B Rudd

I like that idea alot.

I think #3 is a good idea and can only add to gameplay. Currently I've been seeing on a reguar basis squads moving like a plague of locusts from flag to flag and just leaving the previous one undefended - resulting in them having to recap it 2 minutes later. Perfect example of this was on Operatin Barracuda when playing as USMC, after a delayed landing, we finally got rock fortification, and had to move to where the trenches are, I forget the flag name, anyway I digress. Long story short, no one set up a FB, no one stayed behind and as a result before they got to the next flag Fortification had already been recapped - this happened two more times during the same round

If you link tix to cps it's going to perhaps steer players in the right direction and they'll have to defend their CPs and not just try and bulldozer through the map and make the opposing team bleed out straight away

[calstifer]

3# should be added

1 and 2 maybe, maybe.

[Liquid_Cow]

Excellent discussion boys, here's a few of my thoughts... just a little free thinking on the subj

What ever the final results are, you need to be careful we don't over reward a team that's already winning as IAJTHOMAS points out... it demoralizing enough to quickly loose a game, if the enemy suddenly starts getting bonus equipment and a fast bleed turns a loss into a rape.

What if both sides started with a bleed? And capping CP's slowed the bleed down. In the case of Mongolian's stalemate match it would be over quicker, and maybe one team might be given the incentive to go out on a limb to get one more flag.

I have always liked to mix the carrot with the stick, loosing 10-20-30 tickets for loosing a CP is a stick, maybe we can give a carrot for taking one, a jeep spawn or perhaps a special non-respawn vehicle like the old magic trucks? Just have to be mindful of my first point of over rewarding the winning team.

Or how about, take a CP and hold it for ten minutes before you get your reward???

Is it possible to have 2 stage CP's? Take the bigger CP and reduce bleed/get point reward... hold a tight CP with a small radius for ten minutes and get the big reward?

EJOD city has always been my favorite map because there is a clear reason to advance and capture the CP's, you're taking the city from the enemy. Until we get over the 64pp hump maps like Kashan and Quinling will not reach their true potential, too much ground, not enough players. While I agree its not a mapper's problem, they do amazing work, perhaps some guidance to make maps with clear objectives?

There's a reason the most popular vBF2 maps are city maps, they are fun! We in the PR community have shy'd away from city maps in favor of maps which allow us to use the great and more realistic weapon systems, but trying to do an armor battle on a 16km map with only enough crew to man one platoon of tanks and one of infantry per side is not, well... realistic.

[[R-DEV]Rhino]

Originally Posted by Liquid_Cow

Is it possible to have 2 stage CP's? Take the bigger CP and reduce bleed/get point reward... hold a tight CP with a small radius for ten minutes and get the big reward?

I dunno if this is exactly what you mean or not but that got me thinking of may (probably not for AAS but anouther game mode) you can have flags that need to be captured, and once captured and held for a period of time by a team, they then disappear after held for 15mins or something, thou if they where captured by team 1, then team 2 over ran the point and captured it before the 15min timer was up, then it would reset etc. The team to be able to capture it and hold it for the full time could then be rewarded or the enemy team could loose tickets etc. Then after that anouther flag pops up or something.

Just thinking out loud here but ye, could be an interesting concept, maybe not that realistic to simply be able to fully ditch a point after its been capped and held but could be for some scenarios.

[Koroush47]

#2: Connect vehicle spawning to CPs. Sounds good on paper, but it's not exactly logical or a good thing to make vehicles spawn more often than they do now. And it would lead to an overflow of vehicles on maps like Kashan and Qinling.


#3: Connect the CPs to the tickets. This is the way to go if you ask me. It makes sense from a gameplay perspective and will give a solid reason for teams to attack and defend the CPs. It can be done so a team lose X tickets when they lose a CP, or so a team gain X tickets when they capture one, or a combination of both. Or maybe something else. It's a simple and effective award for playing with a good strategy and actully playing AAS maps the way they're supposed to be played - by fighting over the CPs.

2 and 3 are good ideas.


2: You don't have to make it many vehicles...

Just a few cars or humvees. Humvees in muttrah would be cool.


3: Good idea too