Mumble VOIP and PR (ongoing development)

[munky91]

I've got a few questions about how to get this working right. So I followed the installation guide and was able to get on the PR Mumble server. Firstly, should my push-to-talk key be the same as my squad communication key in PR? This was confusing as I couldn't figure out if i was transmitting my voice to both mumble and my in game squad. Also after I join a server how do I move myself into the right channel?

[Ace42]

Originally Posted by munky91

Firstly, should my push-to-talk key be the same as my squad communication key in PR? This was confusing as I couldn't figure out if i was transmitting my voice to both mumble and my in game squad. Also after I join a server how do I move myself into the right channel?

AFAIK you need *4* keybinds. The two standard BF2 ones; Squad only and Commander only; and the two mumble ones - all squad leaders and *everyone*.

[Cassius]

I have a P4 3,ghz single core CPU and 2 gig of ram. PR runs aright on medium settings. No problems with teamspak. However when I load up Mumble gameplay lags really bad. Is it my rig, or shouldnt mumble impact the system much more than TS ?

[Tartantyco]

Originally Posted by jigsaw-uk

Im sure its brilliant and all I just cant see any advantages over TS except that now the voices in my head can be 3-dimensional

-Ok, imagine this:

You're advancing towards Fishing Village from the north with another squad. As you're moving up together you can talk with each other and work together more efficiently. Meanwhile, another squad is engaging from the south. The Squad Leaders of all talk to each other using the SL channel. A few squads are defending Gov Office(Lets pretend this is back in 0. and a few squads are moving about on the map.

As you engage Fishing Village you're in constant communication with the other squad while the squads defending Gov Office are talking to each other as well. There is no flooding of the VOIP because of VOIP range and volume decrease over distance.

At Fishing Village the squad you were with has been killed/pushed back/etc but you've successfully secured the center. At this point you link up with the squad that was south of you and the SLs and SMs can talk with each other, planning the next step together. Squads all around the map keep talking to each other and other squads.

Your squad and the one you linked up with earlier spread out to defend the flag, splitting up into fireteams south, west, and north. These players can communicate with each other without flooding other fireteams' VOIP. They can talk to their squad using the in-game VOIP over any distance and SLs keep in contact using the "Force Position" VOIP to talk to each other over any distance, telling the squads on defense to move up and assist.

Your squad at Fishing Village is cooperating with two other squads spread out over a large distance. Because they can talk to people in their proximity they can all have lengthy conversations without flooding other people's VOIP. Meanwhile, squads moving up from Gov Office keep communicating while moving up. They link up with another squad on the way and can communicate with them directly without using chat, global VOIP software, using one of their billion key binds, or messing around with channels, sub-channels, etc.

-If you don't get the advantage this software has then you're just blind. No more scrambling for the chat when you see an enemy moving up behind the guy just next to you because he's a blue guy. Just say "Behind you" and the problem's solved(Hopefully ). You can break squads up into several fireteams and maintain good communication in all of them without flooding the VOIP, while still having the in-game VOIP for any squad communication. If your squad got taken out and you're alone at your current position, with the exception of another squad then you can just work with them until you're able to link up with your squad again.


It's. Awesome.

[Kirra]

Won't this reduce the commanders role to basically nothing?

[[R-MOD]Jigsaw]

Originally Posted by Tartantyco

-Ok, imagine this:

I can see what you are saying, and it may be useful in pub games but it would require extreme discipline from all concerned which is the only way it would work in a pub game, and im sure you must understand that that simply will not happen in 95% of pub games. It also means that every1 in the server has to be connected to the same mumble server. What then happens to the guy who doesnt have mumble (which would inevitably happen countless times in a pub game), does he just sit and cry in a corner?

It necessitates having 2 methods of communication, VOIP and mumble in order to maintain any kind of squad cohesion. For example, I like to split my squads into 2 or 3 man fireteams dependent on the situation. How am I supposed to speak to the other fireteams which could be some distance away without using the existing VOIP/TS method.

Now Tartantyco I believe that you are in the PRT as well as I am so lets look at it from that angle. During battle I have 1 main TS button and 4 keybinds. It takes around 10 seconds to set up a keybind, and allows you to then communicate with each specific SL in your team, without all of them hearing the 2 of you jabbering on about whatever.
In addition you can set whispers so that all SLs can converse in private with each other.

Now to some of your other points:
1. If you see a enemy moving up behind your "blue" m8 how about you just shoot that enemy and you've got no problems. The very fact that your shooting will alert him.
2. Why would I want to break up different squads into different fireteams. How the hell is that supposed to work. Having fireteams composed of different members of different squads is pointless, counter-productive and confusing as hell.
3. Flooding the VOIP? VOIP is within your own squad. If you want to talk to another squad then use your keybinds as detailed above. Your still using the VOIP for in-squad comms so why would you bother with mumble? Sounds to me like the VOIP would be pretty well flooded if all SMs from 2 different squads are chatting away to one another.
4. You can only talk to each other within a certain distance. What happens then when you split to envelope an enemy position by flanking from the left and right with a base of fire? You then have to use the existing VOIP/TS, cos you'll be just that far away that in the heat of battle you cant quite make out what the others are saying, so whats the point in using the mumble in the 1st place? Why not just use VOIP/TS all the time?

Therefore in my mind it is fixing something that was not broken in the 1st place. The only feasible benefits of mumble over TS are to allow individuals to talk to each other in-game without using chat (so long as they are close enough) and allowing their voices to seem as though they are coming from each players position in-game.

Originally Posted by Robbi187

Well an experience is a personal thing, and to be fair, atleast he didnt just come on and say that the program was uter shite...

Ok, now I admit that I have done the above Although im not saying its shit and doesnt work (im sure it does work if you are prepared to screw around with the settings for long enough). What im saying is that it has nothing which sets it apart enough from the existing communication applications to be worth all this fuss.

[[R-CON]ReadMenace]

Originally Posted by Kirra

Won't this reduce the commanders role to basically nothing?

Or give him more control.. O.o

Imagine a whole 32 person team operating as a cohesive unit rather than five or six war bands. A mechanized column, lead by a single man (The Commander).

-REad

[[R-CON]Snares]

Originally Posted by Ace42

AFAIK you need *4* keybinds. The two standard BF2 ones; Squad only and Commander only; and the two mumble ones - all squad leaders and *everyone*.

You can also set the key you use for BF2 to be muted in Mumble. Just open the Shortcuts tab and set "Push-to-Mute".

You guys might want to set mute to default for your AFK channel. If you don't know how simply open the ACL editor for the AFK channel and deny @all Speak. The server will then automatically mute anyone who enters the channel (unless there are ACL's defined below it; they will still be able to speak unless you deny them it).

I can't believe how many people are in your server. There must be about 50 or 60 at almost any time.

[Tartantyco]

Originally Posted by jigsaw-uk

I can see what you are saying, and it may be useful in pub games but it would require extreme discipline from all concerned which is the only way it would work in a pub game, and im sure you must understand that that simply will not happen in 95% of pub games.

-How would it require "extreme discipline"? I play a lot of pub games and I know what a pub population is capable of.

It also means that every1 in the server has to be connected to the same mumble server. What then happens to the guy who doesnt have mumble (which would inevitably happen countless times in a pub game), does he just sit and cry in a corner?

-This is why a PR specific server is being developed. And there's enough people without mic's or lonewolfing to say that people lacking mumble would have any influence on the game.

It necessitates having 2 methods of communication, VOIP and mumble in order to maintain any kind of squad cohesion. For example, I like to split my squads into 2 or 3 man fireteams dependent on the situation. How am I supposed to speak to the other fireteams which could be some distance away without using the existing VOIP/TS method.

-You use your in-game VOIP for communication between fireteams. If there are players from other squads mingled in with your fireteams then they can communicate with the players close to them. You can't directly communicate to *Random player* from *Random squad* that's next to you with TS or any other VOIP software without flooding other people's VOIP. This is the point.

Now Tartantyco I believe that you are in the PRT as well as I am so lets look at it from that angle. During battle I have 1 main TS button and 4 keybinds. It takes around 10 seconds to set up a keybind, and allows you to then communicate with each specific SL in your team, without all of them hearing the 2 of you jabbering on about whatever.
In addition you can set whispers so that all SLs can converse in private with each other.

-I am not in the PRT. And everything you listed is available in Mumble(Maybe not SL specific binds, but I'm sure they could be added). The ability to speak directly to any person close to you is not available in TS or other software.

Now to some of your other points:
1. If you see a enemy moving up behind your "blue" m8 how about you just shoot that enemy and you've got no problems. The very fact that your shooting will alert him.

-It was just an example, but it might be that he's some distance away, that he's dropped out of visual range, you have some other item active at the time, you're a pilot(lol), etc. You also have things like warning people of mines or other explosives without using chat or any global VOIP. How do you contact *Player 3 driving Squad 2's APC* in two seconds?

2. Why would I want to break up different squads into different fireteams. How the hell is that supposed to work. Having fireteams composed of different members of different squads is pointless, counter-productive and confusing as hell.

-Well, maybe you want a SAW to the north and a SAW to the south? But I didn't mean spreading both squads equally, I meant that there may be some overlapping of squads, and that SMs from two squads might have some use for being able to communicate with each others without using a billion binds or flooding VOIP.

3. Flooding the VOIP? VOIP is within your own squad.

-wut? VOIP is Voice over Internet Protocol. By VOIP I mean any software transmitting audio between it's clients.

If you want to talk to another squad then use your keybinds as detailed above. Your still using the VOIP for in-squad comms so why would you bother with mumble?

-I might very well use my keybinds. My Mumble keybinds. And I'm using the in-game VOIP for in-squad comms to communicate with my own squad. I'm using Mumble to communicate with parts of my squad, my driver/gunner only, my chopper pilot, my random blue guy standing around next to me, etc.

Sounds to me like the VOIP would be pretty well flooded if all SMs from 2 different squads are chatting away to one another.

-How come you don't understand this? Two squads just 20m from each other can have two completely different conversations within their squads. They can also talk between the two squads as well at that distance(Albeit at a low volume). Two squads could have 12 conversations going between each other without there being any issues with VOIP flooding.

4. You can only talk to each other within a certain distance. What happens then when you split to envelope an enemy position by flanking from the left and right with a base of fire?

-I use the in-game VOIP. What do you use to talk only to the players in your fireteam?

You then have to use the existing VOIP/TS, cos you'll be just that far away that in the heat of battle you cant quite make out what the others are saying, so whats the point in using the mumble in the 1st place? Why not just use VOIP/TS all the time?

-Because I can do whatever TS can do with Mumble, and in addition I get 3D positional audio and I can talk to *Random player* from *Random squad* without having to talk to people who do not find the content of my communication relevant.

Therefore in my mind it is fixing something that was not broken in the 1st place. The only feasible benefits of mumble over TS are to allow individuals to talk to each other in-game without using chat (so long as they are close enough) and allowing their voices to seem as though they are coming from each players position in-game.

-You're on the right track here but somewhere you disconnect and manage to miss the point.

[CodeRedFox]

Originally Posted by jigsaw-uk

Therefore in my mind it is fixing something that was not broken in the 1st place. The only feasible benefits of mumble over TS are to allow individuals to talk to each other in-game without using chat (so long as they are close enough) and allowing their voices to seem as though they are coming from each players position in-game

Well that comment right there shows me you dont understand the pluses of this software. So you dont need to use it, move on.

While BF2 VOIP was good its been a huge problem for Project reality. Squads not being able to talk to each other, players right next to each other cant communicate. Commanders not passing info to squads. its just doesn't work for PR.

Mumble on the other hand its like giving us the abillity to mod the VOIP system. And that's the idea behind it.