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Old 12-12-2017, 06:48 AM   #41
Raklodder
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Default Re: Worth To Get Back Into The Game?

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Originally Posted by Bluedrake42 View Post
So if you really want to solve the Project Reality community dying... probably start there. I gave up about a year ago though, and now I'm just waiting for what's left of the PR team to hopefully disband/die... so I can possibly come pick up the ashes, after what's left of the original project quietly burns down. Maybe then we can start properly working on the game/community again, without all the lame duck interference.
Trying to commercialize (or capitalize) PR would definitely put me off from playing it.


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Old 12-12-2017, 09:51 AM   #42
Bluedrake42
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Default Re: Worth To Get Back Into The Game?

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Originally Posted by Raklodder View Post
Trying to commercialize (or capitalize) PR would definitely put me off from playing it.
No one is suggesting that PR become commercialized.

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Mapping tools isn't just bfeditor neither. F.e. pretty much all of mappers doing their terrain&textures in external programs. Obviously we're not going to bundle something like Geocontrol\Worldmachine\Photoshop with the launcher
You're getting tunnel vision. The core principle isn't that this needs to be done a certain way... the core principle is that there is a huge variety of unused channels and mediums here that could be mobilized to help train and weaponize your content creation community.

Even having a section on the launcher itself that simply linked to a tutorial would be better practice. There is an art, entirely revolving around the incorporation of community development, in increasing the accessibility of development in general... to increase content creator conversions.

Just in the same way that implementing a new feature or gamemode into Project Reality takes conjecture and testing, so does best practice for community content creation integration. Finding the best ways to incorporate content creators into the workflow or pipeline (whatever your pipeline is) can be accomplished in a variety of ways.

Let me put it this way. Yes... of course you wouldn't bundle Worldmachine into your launcher. However... how many people in this community do you even think know what Worldmachine is? Spending time promoting or informing the community of what Worldmachine even is would probably be better than nothing.

It doesn't always revolve around distributing files... sometimes it just revolves around publishing your workflow, pipeline, or even promoting and suggesting development environments for new content creators to start experimenting with... tools that they know is compatible with their end goal, which is developing content for PR.

You don't want people to get started in... idk, paint... just to get frustrated down the line when they realize they've been working in the wrong developer environment this entire time.

One of the reasons I have such an easy time weaponizing developers around me, isn't because I just happen to have more talented developers in my community compared to others... its because we focus more on weaponization, and enablement, which takes more full advantage of anyone who happens to be around within our community.

We have our developer commits automatically push to Discord. We have our issue system public... and allow our community to create moderated issues within our primary developer environment. We literally have days where we have open meetups, where anyone can join a channel and get help setting up their developer environment to plug into our workflow. We offer software bundles, or a list of work platforms to our community, to help them get quickstarted for whatever specific interest they have (making terrain, making models, etc)

There is more than one way to skin a cat. You just have to actually start skinning it.

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The way we have it setup now is you find the tools, with download links, in the tutorials which teach you how to use them and require them as you need them and tbh, still convinced that is the best approach myself, although the tutorials themselves I agree could be improved and updated a lot, they do their job and people using them aren't complaining, other than some really old tuts missing pics etc
Its not that the tutorials aren't capable, its more of how many people read them... and how promoted/prioritized they are to push traffic through. Its not just a matter of making the training platform, but also getting people to use it. The more traffic you push through your training filter, the more converted content creators you'll have on the other side.

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Last edited by Bluedrake42; 12-12-2017 at 03:44 PM..
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Old 12-12-2017, 10:13 AM   #43
HOLLYWOODY
Default Re: Worth To Get Back Into The Game?

Preach!
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Old 12-12-2017, 01:19 PM   #44
lakinen
Default Re: Worth To Get Back Into The Game?

In some things bluedrake42 you're right. I started to make a big map two months ago. I asked for some help about some things. First, they closed the topic.next then they wrote to me to do everything myself. Only one of the DEV helped me. And when I proposed some new things, they laughed. So I do everything for myself (while I have free time).I wanted to help with the game, and I turned out to be a fool. So i am to old for , to trying help someone who does not need help.
-I fight for new players to stop kicking them from servers(and drink caffee,play game)
-because no one is unreasonable if there are no people in the game, no game (simple).
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Old 12-12-2017, 01:50 PM   #45
Stark38
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Originally Posted by Wicca View Post
Holy crap I am glad I didn't read all that.

Just play the game guys, populate the servers and keep being passionate about the best game in the world.
This is answer #1. R-Dev is fairly hands-off in terms of community, its up to those who run the servers to do community management.

If you want PR to grow, consider the "First Hour" a new player might experience when playing PR. Its a tad obfuscated how to start. There's no good tutorials or walkthroughs for the first ten minutes. But say the player makes it onto the high-pop server because that's where players gravitate, then: Find squad, hope the SL is friendly to newbie players. If so, that new player is in luck. But more likely than not, is kicked from squad, ends up in a free kit squad, gets bored after half an hour running around and dying with Rifleman kit not knowing what to do before quitting and uninstalling. If there's no guidance there, its a quick path to the uninstall wizard.

Sure R-Dev can do stuff, but they are volunteers working for negative amounts of money (the donation amount meter wasn't anywhere close to filled for last month.) Community management is better left to the actual community and server leaders/admins should be better in-tune with what is going on. If server admins want to keep their servers filled, it is imperative that they ensure an environment where people have fun is fostered. Nothing empties a server faster than players getting raped at first flag by massively unbalanced teams for multiple rounds.

At the end of the day, be the example of the kind of player you want to play with.
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Old 12-12-2017, 02:07 PM   #46
Bluedrake42
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I agree that the community leaders and server administrators are currently doing the largest portion of heavy lifting for maintaining the population, and working on incorporating/onboarding new players and contributors. That only goes so far though... as we are now starting to see.

lakinen is a good example of the people you don't even realize are slipping through the community's fingers. For every person like him who speaks up that they felt there was a problem, there are 20 others who simply left without a word.

Onboarding best practice isn't just about making the material available, its also about getting people involved into using it... and pro-actively working to train/onboard the community. This is one of the reasons Youtuber communities in general are taking off, because they specialize more in onboarding than product development. Right now the scales are tipping, and it is becoming more important to have better onboarding and community integration than a highly skilled, and highly curated smaller concentrated team.

You don't lose anything by training and weaponizing every last person you can find who is willing to hold a rifle/development SDK.

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Old 12-12-2017, 04:42 PM   #47
Heavy Death

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PR maps are such a big undertaking that if you give up shortly after somebody tells you to work it out yourself, you will leave anyway after 2 months of "work". You know how many maps were not put in simply because lack of detail? If a guys whines about getting told in the starting stage, imagine after a year or two of development, when his map isn't included?

Where there is a will, there is a way.

And most of all, I like my quality over quantity, and the least of all I want some lower grade maps/weapons/whatever ingame that would trigger OCD and just make me rage.

Same shit applied to music, in the olden days, playing music was something you had to learn, but nowadays every second person plays a guitar, is a DJ or has a band. All cool and well, power to the people I say, but it doesn't matter because everything is mediocre anyway and it just makes some good music harder to find amongst all the stuff thats out there.

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Old 12-12-2017, 05:13 PM   #48
lakinen
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This has nothing to do with maps, details ... that's just an example.Please read all messages.
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Old 12-12-2017, 05:42 PM   #49
[R-DEV]Rhino
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Default Re: Worth To Get Back Into The Game?

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Originally Posted by Heavy Death View Post
PR maps are such a big undertaking that if you give up shortly after somebody tells you to work it out yourself, you will leave anyway after 2 months of "work". You know how many maps were not put in simply because lack of detail? If a guys whines about getting told in the starting stage, imagine after a year or two of development, when his map isn't included?

Where there is a will, there is a way.

And most of all, I like my quality over quantity, and the least of all I want some lower grade maps/weapons/whatever ingame that would trigger OCD and just make me rage.
Indeed.

You also have to consider the fact to help someone is a huge undertaking and takes you away from your own personal work, where you can often find that you can spend more time helping someone do something, than if you did it yourself.

To take a recent example of the Super Etendard, if you read through the topic you will see just how much time I've had to put into it, and frankly, the project probably wouldn't have taken that much more of my time than if I had made it all myself from scratch tbh, since, in the end, I've had to fix up and even remodel quite a lot of it.

I suggest you guys read the Super Etendard development topic in community modding to see just how much time we put into helping some community projects and even if we wanted to, there isn't enough time to help every single person out there, especially when they ask us to make them things for their maps like "2 new transport planes planes (C-130,Antonov AH-26)"....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluedrake42 View Post
You don't lose anything by training and weaponizing every last person you can find who is willing to hold a rifle/development SDK.
Says the person who only posted on the last page of this topic:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluedrake42 View Post
Unfortunately I really need to work on actual work now. I am neglecting my own people writing these posts.
Even just replying to someone's problem can take a huge amount of time when you add it all up, let alone all the time it takes to do the things your saying we should, on the hope that in doing so, the community will step up more than they already are in developing more content, where instead of taking a gamble on that paying off, we could instead spend the time actually making things ourselves which tbh, is what I'm mainly going to be focusing on in the future.

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Old 12-12-2017, 08:10 PM   #50
[R-CON]X1 Spriggan
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Default Re: Worth To Get Back Into The Game?

I don't think PR is "dying" because PR DEVs are in anyway restricting or dampening their efforts in teaching the community how to contribute to game. Through their own hard work and commitment, each developer had their own ideas and talents and successfully executed them to contribute to the community made game.

However, as PR as matured and quality of content continues to rise, so do expectations and knowledge ceilings. This is why many community members feel like they want to create a new map for example fail to pass the scrutiny of the initial quality pass when publicizing the progress of their maps. It is very difficult to quickly match the current quality of current versions of PR and new contributors end up not getting new content into the game, ultimately slowing new updates for PR.

Perhaps it is as simple as pointing community members in the right direction and saying "here is my workflow, copy it and make new content please". But the incentive is that their content will be added to the game and people will enjoy it and the community will grow, and the fear is that their quality won't be good enough and will do virtually nothing in making PR more popular or played.

As said by many others, PR DEVs do what they can to continue working on PR helping it to stay alive, but I don't believe that turning all efforts into making the PR community a content generating machine is a sustainable answer.

My current belief is that it isn't the lack of new content that stunts the continued growth of PR, but problems with the core gameplay mechanics that the PR community has become accustomed to over many years of playing, but that would be an entirely different discussion. Players play a game if its fun, not necessarily because it has new things. There is already an enormous amount of content in PR. The current discussions and frustrations should be focused on how to quickly make PR more fun for a wider audience, not how to off load work onto the community because the resources basically already exist.


[17:21] Falkun: im making spaghetti
[17:21] Falkun: lal
[17:22] Falkun: i'll put some in an envelope for you
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