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PR:BF2 General Discussion General discussion of the Project Reality: BF2 modification.

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Old 10-18-2017, 09:21 AM   #1
Fuller
PR Server License Moderator
Default CAS not affecting gameplay.(?)

Hey guys.

With all the changes to armor in the recent patches (which contributed to a better gameplay experience) i was wondering if something similar could be done to CAS.
So what was the effect of the new armor system?

1.) Increased survivabilty in (symmetric) firefights.
(No more ATGM oneshots to the front, more thermal smoke for concealment)
So tanks can stay longer on the battlefield to support infantry.

2.) Tanks are more vulnerable to LAT which makes them considerable weaker in urban environments.

3.) Retreating in a symmetric engagement is now an option where it was a big problem before. (Khami: T-72 without thermal smoke vs. abrams with thermal smoke. Silent: T-90 ATGM oneshots. Bijar: Merkava (ATGM/IR-Smoke) vs. T72 (nothing).)

4.) Tanks became "weaker" against infantry because they can't conceal in non IR smoke anymore like APCs. (APCs can drop ammo and the driver can spam smoke nades all over the place)

--> Btw. what do you think about IR smoke grenades for specific kits? (HAT/Combat Engineer)

All those changes led to a better tank gameplay where the tank crews can stay longer in combat.
I'd really like to see something similar with the CAS gameplay because at the moment CAS has little impact on the battlefield and they are fighting almost unnoticed by everyone else.

1.) Increase jet hitpoints so that jets can retreat for repairs after being hit by a rocket.
2.) Increase amount of flairs.
3.) Increase rapair time so that the enemy gains an advantage for damaging the enemy jets. (similar to tanks which have to return to main base to repair but are a lot slower. 70mph vs. 1000mph )
4.)Increase survivabilty of ground attack planes even further (A-10/SU-25) so they can support their infantry.
5.) Change the loadouts in such a way that CAS has to interact more with their infantry/tanks. Maybe give IFV/Tanks the ability to laze targets.
For example on Khami we have A-10, F-15E and F16(?).
Thats a jet purely designed for CAS (A-10), a fighter bomber (F-15 E) and a multirole
in an air to air configuration.
In the worst case scenario the enemy loses all their jets and USA none.
Holy sh** that's ALOT of ordinance flying around (something like 12 JDAMS, 2 Mavericks, 38 Rockets, 1200 rounds of 20mm and 30mm)
Currently that's fine because in the first five minutes a lot of jets die but that is a bad* way to balance assets :/ (* unsatisfiyng way for the players)
A better way would be to send those damaged jets back to main for R&R.
Regarding loadouts i'd like to see more air-to-ground missiles like Mavericks/Brimstones and less bombs. Rewarding "precision" strikes vs. "dumb" bombs so that you really need a SL/spotter/commander.

(new) A-10
1x Gau-8 1350 rounds 30mm
4x Maverick
2x38 Rockets
1x500lbs JDAM
2x AIM9-L

(new) F-15 E
2x AIM 9L
4x AMRAAM
4x Maverick
2x JDAM 500lbs
2x Dumb bomb 1000 lbs.


I'd like to write a lot more but it's already a wall of text so i will keep the rest for another post
Thx for reading

Fuller is offline
Last edited by Fuller; 10-18-2017 at 09:31 AM..
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Old 10-18-2017, 12:14 PM   #2
bahiakof

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Default Re: CAS not affecting gameplay.(?)

I'll be realistic. What is lacking is teamwork, not improving CAS.

Do you want to have more teamwork between assets (CAS, MBT and IFV / APC) and less VANILLA in PR?
A: Remove the killers count from the gunners, and these assets will be used only as infantry support, not to generate "HIGH FRAGS".

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Old 10-18-2017, 01:19 PM   #3
LimitJK
Default Re: CAS not affecting gameplay.(?)

i know your post was aiming at cas gameplay, but your underlying analysis of the gameplay changes by the armour updates (/atgm nerfs) is mostly wrong or lead you to the wrong conclusions.

1.) the only symmetric adversary left for tanks are other tanks. the update didnt increase survivability, it cancelled the risk of dying to any other threat present before the update completely out.

2.) tru

3.) didnt change relevantly

4.) complete bs, tanks dont have to smoke themselves because there is nothing that can kill them. infantry is no threat to tanks at all on most maps.

tanks stay longer in combat because they became invulnerable from the moment they killed the enemy tanks until cas comes up (if it survives dogfighting)+ cas isnt reliable in killing tanks either.
an asset that powerfull, with that much killing potential should be way more punishing if used careless, which it isnt.

example: kashan tanks spawn at round start, i saw one just rolling up straight next to south bunker flag, killed all logis, half the team, a chopper and most of trans trucks. we couldnt get any fob up inside bunker area. when cas spawned 20min later the round was already lost for 15min.
nothing to do about that, besides shoveling up a TOW behind the tank while an AR is distracting it

so yeah either do something about that or i am actually in favor of cas buff, if thats the only remaining counter.


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Old 10-18-2017, 01:44 PM   #4
[R-DEV]AlonTavor
PR:BF2 Developer
PR Server License Moderator
Default Re: CAS not affecting gameplay.(?)

As bahiakof said, what's lacking is teamwork, not jet strength. You shouldn't bomb an area an AA might be active. On CAS maps, players should treat AAs the same way they treat HATs and tows - high priority to report.

Next patch flares will be adjusted a bit. Laser rework will make it very easy to laze long range targets, even moving ones, but easier for tanks to react properly if they know the direction of the person lazing them.
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Old 10-18-2017, 01:51 PM   #5
LimitJK
Default Re: CAS not affecting gameplay.(?)

as in passive protection system with indicator when being lazed for tanks?


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Old 10-18-2017, 02:10 PM   #6
Fuller
PR Server License Moderator
Default Re: CAS not affecting gameplay.(?)

@Limit I think my analysis is quite right that's why i posted it^^

There was never a "real" threat on the battlefield except enemy tanks if you are in a tank.
Sneaky TOW/APC will still destroy your tank pre and post tank buff...tactics might have changed a little bit but these things never had a chance in a symmetric firefight.

4.)In certain situations, especially in a more or less CQB environment (e.g.Gaza) tanks greatly benefit from non thermal smoke.

Your kashan example is rather weird oO
So you are telling me that an enemy tank was faster at the south bunkers than your trans chopper? LOL
That just tells a lot more about your team than about tank balance^^

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Old 10-18-2017, 02:16 PM   #7
Fuller
PR Server License Moderator
Default Re: CAS not affecting gameplay.(?)

What i'm suggesting is more of a tradeoff, lose some firepower (in certain areas) and gain some survivability.
I'm just trying to start a quality conversation without the usual " #CAS OP pls nerf XOXO" bullsh**.

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Old 10-18-2017, 02:23 PM   #8
[R-DEV]AlonTavor
PR:BF2 Developer
PR Server License Moderator
Default Re: CAS not affecting gameplay.(?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LimitJK View Post
as in passive protection system with indicator when being lazed for tanks?
lazes will need line of sight to work, no more "stick", no more "projectiles". Instant, but not lag compensated. Breaking line of sight will make it impossible to laze, it won't "stick" for 20 seconds anymore. Smoking up and moving around will make it hard to laze.
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Old 10-18-2017, 03:42 PM   #9
Heavy Death

Heavy Death's Avatar
Default Re: CAS not affecting gameplay.(?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LimitJK View Post

example: kashan tanks spawn at round start, i saw one just rolling up straight next to south bunker flag, killed all logis, half the team, a chopper and most of trans trucks. we couldnt get any fob up inside bunker area. when cas spawned 20min later the round was already lost for 15min.
nothing to do about that, besides shoveling up a TOW behind the tank while an AR is distracting it:!
If your tanks were not at A1 "hunting"... its teamwork.

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Old 10-19-2017, 02:59 AM   #10
solidfire93

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Default Re: CAS not affecting gameplay.(?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-DEV]AlonTavor View Post
lazes will need line of sight to work, no more "stick", no more "projectiles". Instant, but not lag compensated. Breaking line of sight will make it impossible to laze, it won't "stick" for 20 seconds anymore. Smoking up and moving around will make it hard to laze.
does this mean we have to keep moving our GLTD until the bomb/missile hit the target ?

man that's Awesome...
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